just ignore the first (earliest) position; like, at a nine-handed table, you can ignore the position described as 'UTG' in sircuddles' starting hand chart.



so in this pic, 'pokerjoe' is what sircuddles' chart would refer to as UTG+1, 'geppy' is what the chart calls MP1, etc.

if you're at a 9-man table and some seats are empty, upto a point you can simply keep losing the earlier positions,



so in this pic, 'pokerface', despite being first to act, would be considered as being in MP3 for the purposes of the starting hand guide.

imho, best way to think about this sort of thing, is how many seats you are from the button, not how many seats you are from the blinds. this makes sense when you think about it; one of the reasons we play tight in early position is that the sheer number of people left to act increases the chances of one of them having a strong hand, hence we need our hands to be stronger on average too (plus, we will be at a positional disadvantage for the rest of the hand.) with less players at the table, even if we're first to act, there are still less players to act than there would be if the table were full. hence there is less chance of a strong hand yet to act behind us, and the likelihood of us playing the pot oop also decreases somewhat. both factors mean we can play looser as we get closer to the button, as reflected in the guide's starting chart.

caveat: as games get very shorthanded, the dynamics imho change to the extant that using the hand chart outlined in this guide won't be a good idea, so if you're just starting out and trying to implement this guide, personally i reckon you should try to stick to fullish games, maybe 7 players or more? just my 2c, others may disagree, idk.

i would say that using a fixed raise size to start is fine, will keep a less experienced player out of the worst kind of trouble he or she could devise for themself by using a flexible raise size (lol love the way that sounds like i never create trouble for myself using goofy raise sizes.)

i think any of 3x, 3.5x, 4x are all fine; and although i know some disagree about the 4x, personally i think given the tightness of the starting hand guide given, 4x is probably the best choice from the bunch, for the reasons that cangurino outlined above.

at any rate, bear in mind that the fixed raise size you choose isn't going to be with you forever, and chosing the absolute optimum raise size or your current game/style is kind of pointless; the point of this guide is to get a losing or breakeven microstakes player to the point where he or she can win a bit, and provide a solid foundation on which to build the rest of your game. as you build on those foundations, your understanding of the game will increase, and your style will change to incorporate more and more ideas/concepts, to the point where you hopefully know enough to appropriately decide which spots to vary your raise sizes, which spots to keep them fixed, and what fixed sizes to choose in each of thos spots, all by yourself (but probably not yet )

hth anyway

EDIT: oh and welcome to the forums!

Quick follow-up on Andyhai's point in the last post...

As you get more advanced, you'll use the hand chart as a general guide, but no more. You'll look at the specific situation and table dynamic to determine whether you can profitably play the starting hand you were dealt. This will greatly increase your winrate.

But, if you're not careful, you'll do what I did, and what I think almost everyone else does. You'll get too loose and play too many hands, and then overestimate the value of top pair or your draw against a specific opponent. When this happens, get back to the basic hand chart and stick with the strategy in this thread. Then slowly expand only when the situation makes it appropriate.

I think this concept also applies to advanced plays and bluffing. At the micros, you should be bluffing about once every 300 hands or so. Don't do it because it's been 300 hands since the last one. Do it because the situation calls for it. When it works, don't let that convince you to do it more often. If you find yourself bluffing too much, go back to the basic strategy in this thread.

Great post- SUBSCRIBED

I don't know how you guys do the formatting for hands, but I'll type out mine in a similar format, ha.

I sat down at a table, and got to see 1 hand from the big blind before this happened:

$0.01/$0.02 Full Ring ($2 NLH)

BB: $2.10
SB: $1.98 (HERO) --> AhQd
DB: $1.73
CO: $2.53
HJ: $1.87
MP3: $1.97
MP2: $2.24
MP1: $2.15
UTG+1: $2.80

I don't know if this is the correct formatting because I didn't check (maybe I should, but I've already started this hand now..anyway it's 9 players instead of 10 so the positions are all the same..i just discounted UTG..because it somewhat said to a few posts up..maybe i'm supposed to not have an MP3? Anyway..)

UTG+1 calls. MP1 calls. MP2, MP3, and HJ fold. CO calls. DB calls.
I am thinking that AQ offsuit is not a hand to reraise with here because the first two players to act after the big blind both called and it seems like from gap theory you don't reraise both of these limpers with AQ offsuit. That's why I am posting this hand though because this may be (or probably is) incorrect. So I call.

Flop ($0.12)
Qc 2h 5h

TPTK...wee..I don't slow play like I've read above, I bet $0.08
UTG+1 folds. MP1 folds. CO folds. DB reraises all in.

Should I assume he is a bad player with Qx? Should I assume he called with 34? Do I think I'm beat by a set here? Maybe he has 22 or 55? probably would have reraised with QQ preflop. There is a flush draw out there too so maybe he just has two hearts? What is the correct thing to do in this situation. This thread is all about TPTK and exploiting it.

Result:

I call all in. He flips over 5h 7h for a pair and a flush draw. Turn blank. River heart.

Let me know what you guys think and sorry for not knowing how to correctly display a hand.

imho it's probably better to create a HH thread rather than put HH's in this thread.

if you go here, and look in section 2) posting guidelines, all the knowledge will be yours, including how to use teh hand history converter

imho pay attention when it tells you how many hands to put in, and whether or not to include results.

pm me when you made your first thread, i'll post my thoughts on the hand for what they're worth (haven't actually looked at the hand yet.)

Sorry that I posted one. I just thought that this particular HH would be completely relevant to this guide. Since it's not a marginal hand and is TPTK (which is what this guide is all about). This guide specifically speaks of getting top pair with top kicker and how people will stay in with bad hands, so I thought a situation with the optimal hand (aside from flopping a set) would be important, but I guess I was wrong. I'll not post other hand histories and I guess I might edit that one to not take up as much space. Also, maybe I'm completely new to this forum, but I'm not completely new to forums in general, and there doesn't seem to be a PM option. I don't have an Inbox/Outbox..so yeah

also I posted the hand in the Micro Full Ring forum and labeled it 2NL TPTK facing flop reraise

This guide is good enough to beat NL100 with a few tweaks!

Can You explain more?

Hi Guys,

I'd have one question about the preflop raise sizes at micros. Playing at NL10 FR at FTP and Bodog. I'm not sure about the right choice.
- Should I consistently use one size when opening first? What size? 3BB or 4BB? This has the advantage that my hand strength can be hidden. Or is it absolute unimportant at the micros?
- Or should I add 1bb per limper (it's commonly recommended)? There are often 3-4 limpers, should I bet 7BB then? But I don't want to make a big pot with AQ for example, right? But if I do so w AA, then it's pretty easy to tell what I have. Even for a fish.

I read different opinions about it and unsure about the right play. Nowadays, I tend to play one bet size at FTP (there are better players there) and differentiating at Bodog. I play simultaneously in the two poker rooms (quite different games)
Any ideas?

I personally stick with a 3.5BB raise from all positions and with all hands. This disguises my hand and I've found that it's just the right amount to 1. get the job done in terms of stealing blinds, 2. gets a good amount into the pot when you do have a hand, 3. Is a sensible amount where you can quite happily fold hands like A-Q to a 3bet, 4. keeps the pot relatively small pre when you rarely have a hand and is enough to allow the pot to be built on later streets when you do make a hand.

There are other strategies that work too, but this one works for me. hope this helps

Thanks for your reply. On what limit are you using this? And in what room? I ask this why I see in vids by coaches using one bet size at higher limits (usually 3bb). But I think at the micros another approach should be applied. There are even difference between NL10 and NL25.
Furthermore as written I play in 2 different rooms. I can better apply one bet size in FTP than in Bodog.

I think I just figured out that key to beating 100nl is value betting the fish!

this thread should be locked or deleted. In that order if possible.
SemiSimple i like ur nick-

.

FYP.

It doesn't really matter if the thread is deleted because the COTW threads provide much more detailed information.

can u give me a link ?

Is it possible to lock the thread AFTER deleting it??

love this thread, helped me alot getting back into the mix of FR micros after a long time away from poker. thanks much! +1.

Good thread,thank you.

Regarding Bodog and FTP, and PFR size:

1) Bodog and FTP are completely different. The fish% on Bodog is about 3 times as high as on FTP. Recognize this and adjust accordingly.
2) PFR size and whether you vary it doesn't matter much at the micros. Nobody will be exploiting you, so don't worry about balance. I personally raise 4.5bb with QQ+, AK, and 3 with lesser hands.* I usually don't add a bb per limper because it seems that when I do everyone folds. I don't have time to steal much while 15-tabling.


*I know, this is the stupidest thing one could possibly do because I'm totally exploitable and really stupid for doing this horribly stupid thing. Guess what - it works great at the micros. I don't know if it will work at a higher level, and don't plan on finding out.

P.S. Decent players who might try to exploit me are multi-tabling and using a HUD. The HUD doesn't tell them that I raise small with crap and big with premiums.

As a data point for how this guide works, I read it word for word along with a few other beginners guides this morning during the AM Olympic session and 4-tabled it on FTP at .01/.02 with $1.40 starting at each during the PM Olympic sessions. Lots two big pots with when I hit with AQ and AK to A5 and 97 (villain caught two pair on both), respectively. I got "fat-value" bets from people on a dozen other hands at least where, I assume, the villain had mid-pair or some draw. I took stacks from two people who had TT and JJ, who didn't think it possible that I called their opening bet and floped TPTK, queens both times. Only one showed down, where the villain called a river bet with nothing but 4 to a straight, which he only caught on the turn...seriously.

There was only one situation where I wish I'd deviated from the guide. 87c in a mid position would have flopped me a double-belly-buster straight draw and turned me the highest straight against a guy who flopped a set of jacks from the small blind and slow played them to a small pot against a guy with AK on the button, who didn't seem to understand that calling a pot-sized bet on the river with A-high isn't the best idea.

I only wish that I was able to work this strategy at more tables, but I was practically having a seizure with four tables.

When I started, one table was barely doable, and 2 was too fast. I got the hang of 2, and went up to 4. A few months later and I'm up to 15 without a problem. If I could do it, you can do it - you'll get there.

I am using this at micro stakes on stars, iv'e never played higher than 100nl so I cant say if it will work at mid/high stakes but, this seems to be a strategy that is working from 2nl right up to 100nl, if you get past 100nl then good job your better than I am and im sure by then you'll have found what works for you. gl

Good work.