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Cold 4bet bluff Cold 4bet bluff

01-25-2010 , 04:56 PM
Another sweet way to abuse good regs. He is playing 22/16 and 3betting the btn 15% after 500 hands. CO is 28/20. I would prefer to have Ax/Kx because of blockers. And if I get called by an Qx I would still have overcard to suck out with. But you can't have everything I guess I could 4bet little more if I want more pf FE. I expect him to fold the flop alot. Call with AA/KK/QQ.
But he probably would have shoved them pf. I think he folds AQ some of the time my line looks so much like an overpair. Underpairs he folds everytime. We have no crazy history.

Boss $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $47.84
BTN: $58.60
SB: $52.55
Hero (BB): $50.23
UTG: $62.87

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 9 4
1 fold, CO raises to $1.75, BTN raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $12.75, 1 fold, BTN calls $6.75

Flop: ($27.50) Q 3 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $37.48
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:02 PM
what is this a brag? I think you are assuming villain is folding AQ more than you think. Villain might even look you up with KQ.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:03 PM
[ ] Can hit overcard to beat Qx
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:06 PM
pre sizing is too small. i like it if co made it 3x, btn made 10x and we make it 25x, but as played you're giving him way too good a price. and hoping to get him off Qx is pretty bad. you'll probably get TT/JJ to fold a good chunk of the time and air all of the time
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_smith77
pre sizing is too small. i like it if co made it 3x, btn made 10x and we make it 25x, but as played you're giving him way too good a price. and hoping to get him off Qx is pretty bad. you'll probably get TT/JJ to fold a good chunk of the time and air all of the time
I do expect him to call w Qx most of the time. Still I do think good villain will fold Qx here some of the time after tanking forever.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:21 PM
so a sweet way to abuse good regs is to 4bet not only light, but small, then shove on any flop. sounds +EV to me
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
I do expect him to call w Qx most of the time. Still I do think good villain will fold Qx here some of the time after tanking forever.
What Qx can villain have that calls pre and folds on this flop? Isn't this pretty much the exact flop you're looking for with AQ? I think you get villain to fold JJ-TT most of the time, AK that isn't diamonds all of the time, and AQ/KQ/KK+ never.

Plus, why are you betting $37? He's either shoving or folding, why are you doing it for him? If you bet $22, it's not like he's going to bluff shove ever, and you save yourself $15 for when he calls and you're drawing dead.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:23 PM
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
I do expect him to call w Qx most of the time. Still I do think good villain will fold Qx here some of the time after tanking forever.
im not sure how you draw this conclusion
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:36 PM
when we cold 4b bluff, we should pretty much always give up if we get flatted

just c/f

or, if villain is really fit/fold, you could tank and bet like 1/4 pot and hope he folds AK

but c/f is prob best

and LOLOLOLOL @ villain folding any pair when he flats a 4b

Last edited by skraper; 01-25-2010 at 05:41 PM.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:39 PM
i like that line way better. based off the preflop action, i would prefer to valuebluff (post oak bluff) this board than shove
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphere99991
What Qx can villain have that calls pre and folds on this flop? Isn't this pretty much the exact flop you're looking for with AQ? I think you get villain to fold JJ-TT most of the time, AK that isn't diamonds all of the time, and AQ/KQ/KK+ never.

Plus, why are you betting $37? He's either shoving or folding, why are you doing it for him? If you bet $22, it's not like he's going to bluff shove ever, and you save yourself $15 for when he calls and you're drawing dead.
He will 3bet AQ/KQ/QJ/QT. Probably calls with them if he feels that calling my 4bet is cheap. It is not eazy call with any of them for a good reg. Vs my perceived range. The whole point is not trying to fold out QJ on this flop. Still I think it happens here some of the time.

I could bet small like 9 and shove turn. That I could balance vs good reg. W monsters and very rare bluff like this.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_smith77
im not sure how you draw this conclusion
People general = Qx insta call
Good reg that I give some credit to = May come to the conclusion while tanking that I am not good here.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
People general = Qx insta call
Good reg that I give some credit to = May come to the conclusion while tanking that I am not good here.
Why would a good reg call with AQ/KQ to fold on a Q hit?

And if he's good, why aren't you balancing your range? Would you ever shove AA/KK here (honestly) ?
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
I could bet small like 9 and shove turn. That I could balance vs good reg. W monsters and very rare bluff like this.
We don't need to balance in cold 4b pots where villain flats, honestly dude, how many times does this spot come up?

Barreling as a bluff is pretty bad imo. If we bet 9 and jam turn, we will only have 2/3 psb left and no one is folding anything at this point.

The reason cold 4b bluffing is so awesome, is bc we pick god spots and show a HUGE profit without seeing a flop. We cold 4b against habitual 3bettors that just don't have a strong enough range to continue. And when they do continue, they have the top of their range, and we do not try to bluff them off the top of their range. That said, we probably shouldn't be 4b bluffing guys who flat cold 4bets.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickit
Why would a good reg call with AQ/KQ to fold on a Q hit?

And if he's good, why aren't you balancing your range? Would you ever shove AA/KK here (honestly) ?
honestly, if someone else says we need to balance here I will slap them with my e-peen
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
People general = Qx insta call
Good reg that I give some credit to = May come to the conclusion while tanking that I am not good here.
ummmm im pretty sure nobody is calling a cold 4b with the intention of folding top pair
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickit
Why would a good reg call with AQ/KQ to fold on a Q hit?

And if he's good, why aren't you balancing your range? Would you ever shove AA/KK here (honestly) ?
Cause he has a bluffcatcher. No one bluffs cold 4bet bluffs in NL50. The guy clearly has AA and is afraid to get sucked out on. At the time I did not think balancing was an issue. But ofc vs good players it is. I would probably bet 9 w AA. Not really worried of anything. But hopefully he is not THAT good to know it.
Still I have not c4bet him yet. Hard for him to know my cbet tendencies.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:07 PM
He is never folding a pair that matches the top card on the board

However idk how many Qx he is 3bet/calling with pre

So basically you hope he has AK and not AA/KK with he tarps with pre
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:08 PM
Also make it like 14$ pre because idk some people watch aejones videos and figure that they can call with odds pre, but then spaz out post (i.e. oh noes i has one pair+ all in)
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:09 PM
Also, I put you on AKdd
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin9_90
Also make it like 14$ pre because idk some people watch aejones videos and figure that they can call with odds pre, but then spaz out post (i.e. oh noes i has one pair+ all in)
aejones recommmends calling 4 bets 100bb deep?
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skraper
We don't need to balance in cold 4b pots where villain flats, honestly dude, how many times does this spot come up?

Barreling as a bluff is pretty bad imo. If we bet 9 and jam turn, we will only have 2/3 psb left and no one is folding anything at this point.

The reason cold 4b bluffing is so awesome, is bc we pick god spots and show a HUGE profit without seeing a flop. We cold 4b against habitual 3bettors that just don't have a strong enough range to continue. And when they do continue, they have the top of their range, and we do not try to bluff them off the top of their range. That said, we probably shouldn't be 4b bluffing guys who flat cold 4bets.
If he keeps 3betting his btn like this I will keep sure that this spot will come up time and time again. 2/3 psb is more than enough for him to fold JJ for example.
Don't think that his 4bet calling range has to be very tight. He is 3betting 15% to begin with. Small 4bet always looks cheap to peal the flop. He had not called 4bets yet.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumileijona
aejones recommmends calling 4 bets 100bb deep?
probably not
Cold 4bet bluff Quote
01-25-2010 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
If he keeps 3betting his btn like this I will keep sure that this spot will come up time and time again. 2/3 psb is more than enough for him to fold JJ for example.
Don't think that his 4bet calling range has to be very tight. He is 3betting 15% to begin with. Small 4bet always looks cheap to peal the flop. He had not called 4bets yet.
If he is a good target to cold 4b with 94, his continuing range should be very tight, but his 3b range should be wide. So when he does flat we should give up, or fire a tiny cbet and then give up.

If his range for flatting our 4bets is wide, we shouldn't be 4b bluffing him, but rather we should 4b wider for value.
Cold 4bet bluff Quote

      
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