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Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop?

09-13-2010 , 04:30 PM
15/10/65 is the villain and i'm running at 13/8/45 right now after 50 hands with him.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $50.00
MP2: $62.70
Hero (CO): $44.25
BTN: $54.90
SB: $56.35
BB: $54.40
UTG: $14.00
UTG+1: $18.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with Q Q
4 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.75) 6 A A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5, Hero raises to $15, BTN calls $10

Turn: ($39.75) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $25.50, Hero folds
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:35 PM
What about 3 betting?
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:38 PM
Would you ever consider 4betting preflop? He has a fairly wide range there (depending on his 3bet%) and you're oop

I don't think the bluff is completely awful there but it's definitely the tricky, high variance way to play. If you don't believe that he has an ace perhaps a call on the flop, and a check/fold on the turn would have gotten you the same information without costing you $10 extra. I understand you lose fold equity, but the only thing that's folding that you beat is KK, so considering his range as a whole, you're not losing much value with the fold equity lost.

Last edited by TheEggman; 09-13-2010 at 04:39 PM. Reason: redundancy eliminated...yay for efficiency
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyctrout13
15/10/65 is the villain and i'm running at 13/8/45 right now after 50 hands with him.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $50.00
MP2: $62.70
Hero (CO): $44.25
BTN: $54.90
SB: $56.35
BB: $54.40
UTG: $14.00
UTG+1: $18.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with Q Q
4 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.75) 6 A A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5, Hero raises to $15, BTN calls $10

Turn: ($39.75) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $25.50, Hero folds
What the hell is going on here?

I would think you are c/ring here for value against a JJ cry call than as a bluff. c/c the flop, c/f the turn.

Barry
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stranglylucid
What about 3 betting?
I have a feeling villain's 4-bet call range does not include JJ unless there is a dynamic between these two nits that I'm not seeing. And if he 5-bets you are four-bet folding QQ, which is the ass.

I don't mind the flat OOP. But you have to be comfortable playing QQ OOP.

Barry
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:46 PM
What I meant to say is what are the villans 3 bet stats. I really hate 4 betting here.
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:48 PM
rather check call two streets and get value from his pocket pairs, fold to a 3rd bet. check raising he folds his TT kinda holdings and continues with an Ace only...
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryLyndon
What the hell is going on here?

I would think you are c/ring here for value against a JJ cry call than as a bluff. c/c the flop, c/f the turn.

Barry
He's not getting value out of anybody with JJ's because JJ's isn't going to call a check/raise on the flop against somebody that raise/called preflop.

You are turning your hand into a bluff, and a bad one at that since you have almost zero fold equity.
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 05:11 PM
A 15/10 probably has a wider range OTB v CO, so 4b/calling QQ shouldn't be too bad.

Also, 50 hands is not nearly enough to know our villain's OTB vs CO 3b range.

Once we call OOP and hit an AAx board, it seems like c/c'ing down is good, if we think our villain is aggressive.

Otherwise, we should probably bluff or fold, and bluffing the AAx board seems a bit thin, both since the number good hands we rep is small and the number of hands we target in the villain's range is small.
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote
09-13-2010 , 06:12 PM
4b is possible depending on 3b stats. C/c flop for sure you never get him to fold Ax here and that will make up a fair part of his range.
Bad Check/Raise Bluff with QQ when two aces Flop? Quote

      
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