Am I nitty for wanting to fold this river? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Am I nitty for wanting to fold this river?

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09-05-2014 , 12:09 AM

kratos015

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 83

Are you ever folding this river? Because I seriously considered folding this river. I think only 9T, TJ, TQ, TK, and AT are coming to the river. Any thoughts would be much appreciated! This is Zone Poker by the way. Thanks for any help you guys can offer!

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #30229801

Hero (BB): $40.72 (407.2 bb)
UTG: $9.39 (93.9 bb)
MP: $11.02 (110.2 bb)
CO: $7.44 (74.4 bb)
BTN: $15.86 (158.6 bb)
SB: $30.27 (302.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3

3 folds, BTN calls $0.10, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.85) T

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BTN calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.35) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.35, BTN calls $2.35

River: ($7.05) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $7.05, Hero calls $7.05

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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09-05-2014 , 12:32 AM

Axel15810

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 740

Bet the river for sure.

Yes, I think it would be bad to fold river.

Villain could be doing this on river with some Kx's he thinks is good after we check river or slowplayed trip 10's. Not to mention he's bluffing some since you checked river.

As played I at first was thinking fist pump shove river over his bet to get value out of trip tens, but there may be good arguments to just calling as QT and KT definitely are in his range. Still...I probably shove. Hands like JT, AT, T9s, T8s, KQ are paying me off. I think there's more value in getting it in than calling.

Last edited by Axel15810; 09-05-2014 at 12:53 AM.

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09-05-2014 , 12:37 AM

Zombiefan

adept

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,175

Bet river yourself. Btn's a likely weaker player so will have a lot more tens in his range than KT, QT.

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09-05-2014 , 01:05 AM

kratos015

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 83

When you guys say bet river, I'm guessing that means bet fold? Are you guys calling the river raise if you do bet river?

Also, what is your typical bet sizing here for the river? $4-4.50?

Thanks a ton guys!

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09-05-2014 , 01:17 AM

PokerSparky

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,308

I didn't look at results, but I'm assuming by your post's title that you some how lost this hand to something like QQ or KK.

Anyway, not betting the river is a big mistake IMO. You've got way to good of a hand to just be check calling here IMO.

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09-05-2014 , 03:06 AM

neok

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,799

This drooler has more Tx than a standard player, not to mention random Qx and Kx. Checking river is bad. c/f is even worse.

B/f looks good, dont think you can really call a shove vs a passive player.

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09-05-2014 , 05:49 AM

peskey123

journeyman

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 297

Betting just makes this so much easier as he's only gonna raise worse.

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09-05-2014 , 05:57 AM

Calm Down

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,043

Quote:

Originally Posted by kratos015

Are you ever folding this river? Because I seriously considered folding this river. I think only 9T, TJ, TQ, TK, and AT are coming to the river.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

108 games 0.001 secs 108,000 games/sec

Board: Tc Td 3s Qh Kh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.667% 66.67% 00.00% 72 0.00 { 33 }
Hand 1: 33.333% 33.33% 00.00% 36 0.00 { ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T9s, ATo, KTo, QTo, JTo, T9o }

---

how about putting the minimum amount of effort yourself before making a therad?

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09-05-2014 , 07:35 AM

urbantrust12

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 42

Against a "regular" player i would bet/fold river (because it's very unlikely he's turning any hand into a bluff, and he would just call with a ten). And you have the smallest boat, so you're crushed by his value range.
Having said that, i assume the villan is a recreational player (because of the limp), and recreational players are capable of shoving trips, since they don't know what relative hand strenght is.
Against a recreational player i would check/call like you did. (Most of them are value betting a single ten).

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09-05-2014 , 07:59 AM

#10

Calm Down

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,043

against a recreational player c/c is a mistake since they can call with Qx or Kx too

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09-05-2014 , 08:02 AM

#11

urbantrust12

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calm Down

against a recreational player c/c is a mistake since they can call with Qx or Kx too

would the villan call the flop with QJ-KQ? I don't think so..and AK-AQ would at least raise preflop

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09-05-2014 , 08:08 AM

#12

Calm Down

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,043

villain limp/called the btn at nl10, he's an idiot

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09-05-2014 , 08:20 AM

#13

urbantrust12

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calm Down

villain limp/called the btn at nl10, he's an idiot

even idiots know that AK-AQ are premium and i don't think they ever call the flop with QJ-KQ..unless you have some history with the villan you shouldn't think he's the worst player in the planet..

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09-05-2014 , 08:24 AM

#14

gamma001

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 4,144

X pre, don't like ISOing tiny PP vs stations preflop.

and obv value bet OTR, never folding AP though.

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09-05-2014 , 08:26 AM

#15

gamma001

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 4,144

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbantrust12

even idiots know that AK-AQ are premium and i don't think they ever call the flop with QJ-KQ..unless you have some history with the villan you shouldn't think he's the worst player in the planet..

Again, he limp called the button. he might not be the worst player in the world but he is most likely awful. Also calling flop with KQ isn't a terrible play anyway.

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09-05-2014 , 10:04 PM

#16

Axel15810

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 740

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbantrust12

Having said that, i assume the villan is a recreational player (because of the limp), and recreational players are capable of shoving trips, since they don't know what relative hand strenght is.

This.

I think the right play is to bet river for value and and call a shove. While I do think we are beat a lot of the time if villain shoves most players at this limit are always getting it in with only trips so I think we beat a lot of his river value shove range. And since we'll be getting goods odds to call if we lead river and he shoves, I don't think bet/fold is really an option.

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09-06-2014 , 04:33 AM

#17

Lego05

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,104

Haven't read responses ....

You posted no stats/reads/history/etc. with respect to villain. How do you want to fold this to a random 10NL player who already showed he open limps?

Also, bet river yourself.

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09-06-2014 , 05:54 AM

#18

PokerSpiv

banned

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbantrust12

would the villan call the flop with QJ-KQ? I don't think so..and AK-AQ would at least raise preflop

Yes, most fish will literally call this flop with any 2 cards.

J9 is another possible hand he could call with on the river, given he picked up a straight draw on the turn. Possibly AJ and K9 too.

Fish will call with anything. And they will call the river with anything. That's an important thing to understand at micro limits. You have a full house, you should be betting big for value on the river. At least 2/3rds pot, probably full pot. And I'm calling his shove because a fish is quite capable of slowplaying T8 here and shoving river.

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