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99 floped full, how to extract max profit 99 floped full, how to extract max profit

12-09-2013 , 12:20 PM
    Poker Stars, $0.08/$0.16 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #21410351

    Hero (BTN): $20.89 (130.6 bb)
    SB: $19.78 (123.6 bb)
    BB: $16 (100 bb)
    UTG: $40.83 (255.2 bb)
    MP: $16.78 (104.9 bb)
    CO: $22.04 (137.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 9
    UTG raises to $0.48, MP folds, CO calls $0.48, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.52, CO folds

    Flop: ($4.72) 8 8 9 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $2, UTG calls $2

    Turn: ($8.72) 6 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $6.64, UTG folds




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    Villain is fish

    99 floped full, how to extract max profit? maybe bet 1/3 turn to provoke some bluff? or just as played, value betting ?

    p.s. I bet flop 40% to look weak

    Last edited by techpoker1; 12-09-2013 at 12:27 PM.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 12:57 PM
    Don't 3b pre
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 01:11 PM
    Why are you 3betting preflop?

    As played, probably half pot, half pot, shove is the best line.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 01:25 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CCM
    Why are you 3betting preflop?

    As played, probably half pot, half pot, shove is the best line.
    I 3bet because:

    1) utg fish pfr = 40, 4bet -> 0, so 99 ahead of his range and he will not 4bet( so I can see flop and set-mine )
    2) second caller has high squeeze fold as caller
    3) if they fold 2/3 times I have insta profit

    4) even if we see flop, I have:

    a) initiative
    b) position
    c) odds to flop set( my stack = 130 bb ) + small odds for straight
    d) 99 has some showdown value against AK, AQ, 55-88 unimproved
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 01:37 PM
    i like 3 betting pre in this spot

    yes, half pot half pot shove is the best way
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 01:45 PM
    3 betting is fine, but I think I like flatting a little bit more. Depends on CO stickiness/fold to c-bet but if it's low, really often it's gonna go UTG c-bets, CO calls and then you have loads of options on how to proceed based on the board texture (especially when we flop a boat like this and the only question is how to get the money in).

    As played, yeah, def like half, half, ship as others have said.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 01:55 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CCM
    As played, probably half pot, half pot, shove is the best line.
    +1
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 02:07 PM
    what calls a 40% flop bet that doesn't call 60%.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 02:16 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mackeleven
    what calls a 40% flop bet that doesn't call 60%.
    Several things, 40% also induces more. Also bluffing is cheaper. I'd say 60% is a bit on the large side here. 50% is sufficient to get the money in over 3 streets.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 02:20 PM
    OP said villain was fishy so he might call three streets with much worse. But against most players, can we make more money by checking turn?

    If villain has 8x, all of the money will be going in otr anyway. If he has Q9-A9 or TT+ he could bet river for value, he might bet all of his busted FDs (as well as his made flushes), and he might spaz and bet if another straight card comes.

    By betting flop and turn we are repping A9, 89, 88+, and I doubt he calls our river shove with less than trips. Maybe I am being hopeful but it seems like we only lose value if he calls turn with his draws then x/f otr if he misses.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 02:22 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eishu
    OP said villain was fishy so he might call three streets with much worse. But against most players, can we make more money by checking turn?

    If villain has 8x, all of the money will be going in otr anyway. If he has Q9-A9 or TT+ he could bet river for value, he might bet all of his busted FDs (as well as his made flushes), and he might spaz and bet if another straight card comes.

    By betting flop and turn we are repping A9, 89, 88+, and I doubt he calls our river shove with less than trips. Maybe I am being hopeful but it seems like we only lose value if he calls turn with his draws then x/f otr if he misses.
    never checking turn... more players = bet even smaller
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 02:55 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CCM
    Several things, 40% also induces more. Also bluffing is cheaper. I'd say 60% is a bit on the large side here. 50% is sufficient to getnot a whole lot of difference between 50 and 60 % but the money in over 3 streets.
    op lost out on value betting 40%
    if they only peel once, on a paired board we miss out by betting 40%.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 03:40 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mackeleven
    op lost out on value betting 40%
    if they only peel once, on a paired board we miss out by betting 40%.
    villain might fold KJ to a 60% cbet but call 40%. Gives him a chance to make TP and get his whole stack. Also it might induce c/r or c/c/lead with something random.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 03:48 PM
    50-60% is my standard in 3bet pots. i just don't don't see villain calling 2 bucks and folding for 2.40, 2.50 tbh. but i take your point.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 03:53 PM
    I think betting quite big both streets is good (maybe even to get all the money in OTT!). He won't fold any draw or 8x which are the same hands we are targeting with small bets. You won't induce most fish to bluff with small sizing (which is why everyone says to valuebet until raised vs them) and the fish that will spew don't care about betsizing. More value to be had by maximising early vs draws than setting up a big river bet imo.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote
    12-09-2013 , 04:40 PM
    Villain has alot of total crap in his range. As the board develops, it may not be such a bad idea to give him a chance to try and take it away because it's a play he can make on the river with his entire range of garbage. If he had a real hand, he'd probably make a move on the flop or turn anyway, right? He may also river a flush or a 4 straight or something and overvalue it. Nearly every river card is good for him to make a move. Granted, there is alot of value in half potting the turn with all the draws out there, but I feel that this is offset by this guy's huuuuuuuge PRF and that more than anything he has complete and total crap in his range. To get value from that, he needs to be the one that leads. I say in this particular case, give him the opportunity to do so since he'll put more cash in anyway if he has or rivers some kind of real hand.
    99 floped full, how to extract max profit Quote

          
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