50NL - QQ Turn Decision - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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50NL - QQ Turn Decision

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11-28-2021 , 09:48 PM

0NoobiePoker0

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,313

SB is 83/17/0 in 30 hands. BB is 20/10/7 in 50 hands. Just going for decent value on the flop. Good spot to just keep firing against an opponent like this on the turn? Thanks-

UTG: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 132.6 BB
BTN: 53.96 BB
SB: 70.62 BB
BB: 53.06 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, SB calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (7.5 BB, 3 players) J

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 5.5 BB, SB calls 5.5 BB, fold

Turn: (18.5 BB, 2 players) J

SB checks, Hero?

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11-28-2021 , 11:54 PM

JohnRusty

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Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

We can keep betting to get value from draws and underpairs. 1/2 or less IMO

Fishy fishy isnt folding diamonds and they probably get to this flop with like 100 diamond combos

Also you should size up pre when you see a player like this in the blinds

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11-29-2021 , 10:00 AM

0NoobiePoker0

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRusty

Thanks, yeah I agree the PF sizing could've been bigger with the big fish in the blinds. What do you think about the river situation now?

UTG: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 132.6 BB
BTN: 53.96 BB
SB: 70.62 BB
BB: 53.06 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, SB calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (7.5 BB, 3 players) J

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 5.5 BB, SB calls 5.5 BB, fold

Turn: (18.5 BB, 2 players) J

SB checks, Hero bets 11 BB, SB calls 11 BB

River: (40.5 BB, 2 players) 3

SB bets 51.62 BB and is all-in, Hero?

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11-29-2021 , 10:03 AM

Donkeybets

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 542

If hes a fishy fish how many Jx can he have? To value bet you need to have more than 50% equity after being called, river is a bad card I would fold

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11-29-2021 , 11:19 AM

JohnRusty

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Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

I’d probably station this

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11-29-2021 , 11:27 AM

BobbyPeru

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Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 2,444

I'd rather check and bluffcatch river. Jx is a huge part of his xc flop range. River polarized but I think a fish is gonna have a J a lot with this size. I'd lean towards folding but calling is probably fine. Can't win em all.

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11-29-2021 , 11:34 AM

0NoobiePoker0

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,313

Against a tighter player I would’ve just checked turn. But considering he probably has every single diamond combo imaginable and I don’t hold one, I went for a bit of turn value. I so wanted to call River, but not sure if a loose passive just jams missed diamonds.

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11-29-2021 , 12:20 PM

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,248

I think call river. He can definitely play call/call/jam with all FD/SD/GS. 17RFI is not super passive

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11-29-2021 , 12:58 PM

JohnRusty

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Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

having aggression stats in your HUD also really helps for spots like this. Some 80/17 will have like 5% aggression, others will have like 45%

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11-29-2021 , 01:16 PM

#10

submersible

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 1,583

i dont think you can really size up here pre vs the sb when the button and bb both have 50 bb as an overall strategy (probably you can get away with doing it with qq). id check turn as a default to call every river but i think betting qq w no d is fine vs this dude. as played id call unhappily

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11-29-2021 , 01:25 PM

#11

JohnRusty

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Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

Quote:

Originally Posted by submersible

i dont think you can really size up here pre vs the sb when the button and bb both have 50 bb as an overall strategy (probably you can get away with doing it with qq).

Yeah I'd advocate tightening up a bit but going to like 3.5 bb (and keep increasing the sizing until we reach the pain threshold)

If your ranges are the same then I wouldn't go much bigger than 3, unless we're not concerned with the other regs catching on and so we just go really big with our good hands

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11-29-2021 , 01:31 PM

#12

0NoobiePoker0

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,313

What aggression stats would you use here to help you decide to possibly make this call? I know it's only 30 hands, but let's say it's 300 hands, what stats are you looking at? Thanks-

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11-29-2021 , 01:40 PM

#13

JohnRusty

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Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

In drivehud, there's a stat called "aggression" which is just the percentage of times they could've taken an aggression action postflop but didn't. It's obviously not perfect for a variety of reasons, but it can be really useful even over small samples` (on ignition, all you get is small samples). If I see someone with an enormous VPIP and a 35+ aggression, I figure they're mostly full of **** and will call down mercilessly, even over 30 hands (keep in mind, 30 hands when they have a 83 VPIP means they've seen 25 flops, whereas your average reg won't see that for over 100 hands)

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11-29-2021 , 01:48 PM

#14

0NoobiePoker0

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRusty

Interesting, thanks for the info. I use PT4 and I know each street has an aggression frequency and aggression factor, but I don't just know of an overall aggression #. Do you know of a comparable aggression number with PT4?

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11-29-2021 , 02:01 PM

#15

newguyhere

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Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 7,138

I don't think overall aggression stats are that useful with only 30 hands.

also, in my database this line is underbluffed. Maybe DDP can chime in on what his reports show.

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11-29-2021 , 03:06 PM

#16

JohnRusty

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Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguyhere

I don't think overall aggression stats are that useful with only 30 hands.

also, in my database this line is underbluffed. Maybe DDP can chime in on what his reports show.

Yeah YMMV, but I think aggression stats can tell you if someone is capable of bluffing or not in 25 flops, which is nice in spots like this because a lot of broken stack fish just have no bluff range here, and others will be doing it with like 150 combos

Some of the strangest plays I see are from high vpip players with 35+ aggression. With enormous VPIPs in particular, I think they generally tend to be either massive stations or bluffing machines, and aggression can help sort them out

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11-29-2021 , 04:11 PM

#17

FreakDaddy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,996

Bet turn vs fish all day. I'd lean towards a river fold vs. the fish, but it's not a horrible call if you made it. If he's a splashy aggressive fish, then it's a call all day. But w/o better info I think even fish understand it would be better to CR the turn if they were planning on bluffing then just x/c and shove river misses.

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11-29-2021 , 04:26 PM

#18

Haizemberg93

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Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,248

You can use WWSF(win when saw flop).
Regs will have between 44-50. The higher the stat is the more aggressive player is post flop and vice versa.

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11-29-2021 , 04:38 PM

#19

0NoobiePoker0

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

You can use WWSF(win when saw flop).
Regs will have between 44-50. The higher the stat is the more aggressive player is post flop and vice versa.

Excellent, thanks for the info.

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