I tanked about donk jamming river and then I tanked some more about bluff catching. In the end I chose my most boring option . what do you think?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
SB: 223.02 BB
BB: 291.7 BB
Hero (UTG): 243.94 BB
MP: 363.16 BB
CO: 114.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, BTN raises to 6.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 4.5 BB

Flop: (14.5 BB, 2 players) 3 K J
Hero checks, BTN bets 4.54 BB, Hero calls 4.54 BB

Turn: (23.58 BB, 2 players) T
Hero checks, BTN bets 18.5 BB, Hero calls 18.5 BB

River: (60.58 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, BTN bets 70.46 BB and is all-in, fold

BTN wins 57.56 BB

I would raise at least 2.5bb pre. I would always 4bet. I would fold turn for this price.

take the boring option and well played all throughout
i don't think it's particularly close either. Donking is likely just a punt. Calling the jam is pretty bad vs population aswell

2.5x and 4betting are fine options. Folding turn is a mistake

Well thank you. Such a nice set of blockers wasted but I think I agree with you population wise

donk jamming river seems atrocious, how could you justify such without a range advantage? You have 4 combos of AQs. Villain has 12 combos of AQo and 4 combos of AQs, along with KK and more JJ than you (since you should 4b pre some of the time)

pre I'd probably 4b more than call but calling is fine.

on the turn I think we can also consider a fold, probably still mostly calling though

river fold is good

Donking shows up without range advantage. Not saying this is a good spot for one but if it was, QQ is sort of the MVP bluff candidate.

TBH I could see myself donk jamming AQ here

Genuinely curious if you can provide evidence to back up this statement, in almost every sim I've studied there is always range justification for donking.

Posted the question cause I feel pretty lost when considering when to donk but I'm quite certain it has nothing to do with range advantage.

I listened to tombos talk about it being a product of the middle of your range not needing to be defended so you can weaken your checking range without consequence.

Donking is an exception in of itself, and donking without a range advantage is the exception of the exception.
Better to underapply rather than overapply, specially if the reason you apply it is because you recall it sometimes being a thing instead of understanding what you're accomplishing with it

This is pretty much a top 5-10% flop for IP and OOP donks 40% of the time, albeit for very small sizing. Don't ask me why.



Also, apparently overbet donk jamming stuff like A4, 77 on 5h4h2d is a good play in the same configuration.

I used GTO wizard's flop report feature to find these.

Interesting, I'll have to check it out more of those 4bp trip boards...

As for 542r, I thought that GTOwiz has A4s as a jam pre, but odd that it would prefer to jam 77, and 88 when that blocks folds like A7s and A8s. Good food for thought though, don't want to derail this thread

The more I thought about it the more it just seemed wrong to me so I investigated the KKK board.

I ran GTO+ with as same parameters as GTOwiz used in their sim (as close as I could, anyway), including their claimed .2-.3% accuracy (I solved to .25%), and got a pretty similar result (31% donk for this size). I then ran GTO+ with the same parameters but solved to a near perfect accuracy and the 10% donk was eliminated.

The EV difference between a 10% donk and check must be so small on this texture for some hands that it's difficult for the algorithm to converge to a range check. I wonder how many other boards this happens with.

About the other hand, A4s is primarily jammed pre, but the remaining A4s gets pure donked on this flop for large/allin.

Interesting! I wonder if this is the case for all donks that show up without range advantage