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01-05-2010 , 04:53 AM
I feel as though this river bet was to grab some thin value, and I was sure he wouldn't just spazz out randomly because of this bet.

Someone please eval this hand and tell me what I did wrong/if I did somethng wrong. Opponent was pretty TAGish, but was min-3betting my preflop raises a lot.

Thoughts?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $106.35
BTN/SB: $102.75

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with K K
BTN/SB raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $5, BTN/SB calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.00) T 6 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN/SB calls $6

Turn: ($22.00) T (2 players)
Hero bets $12.50, BTN/SB calls $12.50

River: ($47.00) J (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN/SB raises to $32.50, Hero Folds
50nl KK River Induce Quote
50nl KK River Induce
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50nl KK River Induce
01-05-2010 , 11:46 PM
bump..
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 12:08 AM
3b bigger this deep. 6$ is alot better.

betting a "plz spazz ammount" and then folding to a raise is really bad here.

I kinda like checking the turn to let his floats/draws bluff. It's pretty hard to get 3 streets from anything we beat on this board. I'd rather let him bluff turn by checking. We also get looked up lighter on river if we b, c, b.

Betting the turn is never bad though but your river plan is pretty aweful imo
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 12:16 AM
This spot sucks...

I think on the turn I am c/c as I think if we bet we get rid of any of the hands we beat by betting here. Then I am probably calling up to about ~1/2 pot maybe a bit bigger on the river because our hand looks like an AK that missed.

Hand as played:
I am folding to the river raise too don't think anything we beat raises and if you dont think he is spazzing out with a bluff here then fold is fine.

That said I don't think the flush goes for a check raise, too risky for mine (think we are more likely to see a value shove or VB). So we are suspecting that a 10 check raises the river here, again I think this is unlikely a 10 is more likely to lead on the river and less then likely to check raise with the flush out there. So we are afraid of pocket jacks which have called all the way or a J10 which filled on the river. Both of these hands are rather unlikely but possible. But it is this hand or something similar that i think is c/r us here.
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch Dancer
3b bigger this deep. 6$ is alot better
No, i dont think you should be making 4x 3bets b/c you are deep and b/c you have a strong hand.

Preflop and flop are both fine, on the turn i think c/c is just as good as a bet since your line looks kinda bluffy. River is terrible, you should always be checking and re-evaluating when he bets, its way too thin, what hands can he actually call a 3bet with that will call the river thats losing? Very few imo
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 04:04 PM
3bet larger, cbet larger, bet turn larger, jam or check/decide river.

As played I call I suppose. The problem with these weird bet sizes is that we don't know how our opponents react to them because we rarely are in these spots, and we can often level ourselves into a bad decision.

To youcheckraise, why wouldn't you 3bet larger? Are you really worried about giving away your hand strength at 50nl?
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch Dancer
I kinda like checking the turn to let his floats/draws bluff. It's pretty hard to get 3 streets from anything we beat on this board.
+

Quote:
No, i dont think you should be making 4x 3bets b/c you are deep and b/c you have a strong hand.
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by entrncdrnr
3bet larger, cbet larger, bet turn larger, jam or check/decide river.

As played I call I suppose. The problem with these weird bet sizes is that we don't know how our opponents react to them because we rarely are in these spots, and we can often level ourselves into a bad decision.

To youcheckraise, why wouldn't you 3bet larger? Are you really worried about giving away your hand strength at 50nl?
i don't agree with any of this, especially calling the river

also I would check call the turn, he is likely to bet a lot of his range here including the hands he may have floated the flop with
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 10:42 PM
OP, posts more reads. Both of you are 200bb deep.....HOW? HUD stats at least?

At least you told us he min3b a ton, which indicates he's a huge fish. With your indication that he min3b a ton, $6 is super super standard.

The answer to if you should 3b to $6 or not is villain's tendency to getting 3b. If villain fold a ton, just do $5.5. If he doesn't, try to see if he calls $6. If villain is a fish, jack up your 3b price even more. If your lucky, a fish will call a 3b size of $12+++!

Post-flop is a little difficult to give advice with your reads, but I guess a standard vs. a TAG is cbet, bet/fold (turn), bet 2/5 pot/fold (river).
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 10:55 PM
if you are betting to induce, don't ***** fold, fk sake, make a plan and stick to it
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by entrncdrnr
To youcheckraise, why wouldn't you 3bet larger? Are you really worried about giving away your hand strength at 50nl?
He meant no to the 4x 3bet size, not the 3bet larger comment.
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-06-2010 , 11:14 PM
i'm 3b'ing to 6$ because we're so deep, and it has nothing to do with the strength of our hand. Your 3b's will start getting flatted alot this deep because villain has good implied odds and position. I'm 3betting my whole range bigger
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-07-2010 , 12:47 AM
you can't go for thin value with a 1/10th bet..., that's a raise inducer!
---
river,
i don't think you can get 3 streets of value from a 9. i like c/c river, you still get a bet from from QQ or AJ, KJ, plus you can catch his bluffs.
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-07-2010 , 04:23 AM
uh b/f like $27 or something you're deep enough to do it and your gay bet rly sucks
50nl KK River Induce Quote
01-07-2010 , 04:47 AM
Unless we have a read that our opponent isnt hand reading or paying much attention then im going to be consistent with my bet sizing. I dont really see how i can argue this one, its a fundamental flaw to base bet sizing on hand strength, 3betting bigger because we are deeper also doesnt make much sense b/c when we have air hands that were stealing with we will be risking $6 to win $1.50 which means he has to fold over 75% of the time pf for it to be profitable (obviously this calculation is a little off since the times he calls we can win post flop, and there are times he 4bets and we have to fold)

Id like to hear more opinions about the 3betting argument, interesting subject imo.....
50nl KK River Induce Quote
50nl KK River Induce
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