50NL Blitz ACR Poll - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

What do you guys think someone like Limitless or Linus could achieve winrate wise at a 50nl zoom pool (can substitute PokerStars 50nl zoom as well but not Bovada since it is anonymous)?

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10-24-2020 , 05:27 PM

amazin lazer

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,905

69.420 evbb/100

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10-24-2020 , 10:54 PM

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,692

Maybe 12bb/100

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10-24-2020 , 11:26 PM

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

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Originally Posted by hyperknit

Maybe 12bb/100

I feel pretty confident this would be the low end for sure. 50z pool is quite nitty.

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10-24-2020 , 11:43 PM

ZKesic

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,089

You guys have to understand that the rake at 50nl is like 10bb/100, while the rake at high stakes is around 0.1bb/100.

At 50z I think that around 10bb/100 would be realistic.

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10-24-2020 , 11:46 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKesic

You guys have to understand that the rake at 50nl is like 10bb/100, while the rake at high stakes is around 0.1bb/100.

I don't know what exactly the 50z pool is like, but I think around 10bb/100 would be realistic long term.

It's around 7bb.

10k nl is 0.6bb

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10-24-2020 , 11:46 PM

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKesic

You guys have to understand that the rake at 50nl is like 10bb/100, while the rake at high stakes is around 0.2bb/100.

I do understand this. I think it’s 8bb/100.
If I think I can beat 50z for 4-6bb/100 I have to believe those guys can do at least 12 pretty easy.

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10-25-2020 , 12:25 AM

Captain Underpairs

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 420

They'd have to put in some serious volume to achieve those win rates.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

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10-25-2020 , 12:26 AM

GLUIPERIG

adept

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 852

I’ve won at 8bb/100 this month and I suck. So around 243.4bb/100?

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10-25-2020 , 07:30 AM

#10

ZKesic

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,089

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

10k nl is 0.6bb

I have around 400k hands from OTB and LLinus at 5knl and the rake seems to be almost exactly 0.5bb/100 at 3-6max with no ante.

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10-25-2020 , 10:10 AM

#11

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

>12. Sure rake's high, but the skill level's too much to overcome for the others.

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10-25-2020 , 11:00 AM

#12

buggits30

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,181

Has anyone who actually plays in the pool besides gluiperig actually commented on this? Isn't 50nl blitz one of if not the toughest 50nl pools anywhere?

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10-25-2020 , 11:06 AM

#13

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggits30

Has anyone who actually plays in the pool besides gluiperig actually commented on this? Isn't 50nl blitz one of if not the toughest 50nl pools anywhere?

Agree that people saying 12+ are a little delusional.

And I am talking about true winrate - not a month where you ran hot.

I'd love for someone to show me a large sample at 50nl blitz where their winrate is over 5BB. I don't think many people have that.

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10-25-2020 , 11:13 AM

#14

buggits30

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

That's what I was thinking. I don't know anyone who has 5bb/100. I voted 8 fwiw. Had a decent reg bragging about 2evbb/100 in the chat a couple days ago. I think winrates above 10bb/100 rely on softer games and the ability to game select, which there is no game selection in blitz.

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10-25-2020 , 11:17 AM

#15

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggits30

I think it depends on the # of tables you are playing as well.

For the purposes of this poll - I was assuming you are playing 3 tables or the amount of tables where there would not be a significant decline in play due to amount of hands per hour.

I went from 2 to 3 tables recently and I don't think my WR dropped much. But if you are playing 5 blitz tables. That is going to significantly affect your winrate.

I know in the 10nl blitz pool - you could probably count on 1 hand the amount of people with a true winrate of 5+.

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10-25-2020 , 11:19 AM

#16

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggits30

Has anyone who actually plays in the pool besides gluiperig actually commented on this? Isn't 50nl blitz one of if not the toughest 50nl pools anywhere?

I do.
I disagree hard that it’s a super difficult pool.

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10-25-2020 , 11:20 AM

#17

buggits30

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

I was going to ask how many tables. I, along with most other blitz regs, are playing 4-5 at all times for the beast which I am sure affects our winrate. I'm sure a linus or true crusher 1 tabling could destroy us for 8bb/100, but 5 tabling would be a whole different matter.

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10-25-2020 , 11:20 AM

#18

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtraScratch8

I do.
I disagree hard that it’s a super difficult pool.

And let me guess - you have under 50k hands played there?

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10-25-2020 , 11:22 AM

#19

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggits30

Kind of a weird semantics derail going on. It doesn’t say what would their WR be if they were playing 5 tables (I still think it would be 12+bb/100 regardless, probably for both).

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10-25-2020 , 11:24 AM

#20

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtraScratch8

Kind of a weird semantics derail going on. It doesn’t say what would their WR be if they were playing 5 tables (I still think it would be 12+bb/100 regardless, probably for both).

So you think Linus could 5 table 50 nl blitz and achieve a true winrate of OVER 12BB/100?

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10-25-2020 , 11:30 AM

#21

buggits30

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtraScratch8

I do.
I disagree hard that it’s a super difficult pool.

Ya I wasn't saying its super difficult by any means, just that its tougher than a standard 50nl pool is without the ability to game select.

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10-25-2020 , 11:33 AM

#22

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

And let me guess - you have under 50k hands played there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

So you think Linus could 5 table 50 nl blitz and achieve a true winrate of OVER 12BB/100?

Easily more than 50K hands there.

Ya, honestly I do. I think the skill gap is way bigger than regs think.

If OtB and Linus could beat 200-500z for 5-6 bb/100 no problem a few years ago, there’s no way that the 50z pool is even close to what that pool was skill wise then.

Of course, this is all just opinions. Nobody actually knows the answer to this question.

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10-25-2020 , 12:04 PM

#23

ZKesic

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,089

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtraScratch8

If OtB and Linus could beat 200-500z for 5-6 bb/100 no problem a few years ago, there’s no way that the 50z pool is even close to what that pool was skill wise then.

Most regs at 50z use solvers these days, so they can't be all that easily exploited. Also, the rake at 500z is way lower, as was said before.

If you make 5bb/100 at 500z, your true WR is ~7bb/100, while if you make 5bb/100 at 50z, your true WR is more like 13bb/100. That's a pretty big difference.

I don't know what the right answer is tbh, but crushing 50z for 12bb/100, would mean that his true WR is 20bb/100, which seems pretty insane for the toughest 50nl pool.

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10-25-2020 , 12:14 PM

#24

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

And let me guess - you have under 50k hands played there?

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Originally Posted by ZKesic

Just checked. 18+K hands this month.

There’s seriously a small number of regs at 50z that are super difficult to play against. I have probably less than 6-7% of players in the pool tagged as solid regs.

There is a massive % of highly exploitable players.

Also, I don’t even think I’m that great of a player fwiw.

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10-25-2020 , 03:41 PM

#25

Ceres

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,031

I've heard 500nlz regs say things like ~10bb still possible all the way up quite recently.

Seems plausible to me if you're able to maxamize EV against considerably weaker opponents who simply won't know how to respond to so much well-balanced aggression. Also, if we're saying >50k hands, then that greatly favours the more GTO orientated player.

Sometimes I wonder what a finely tuned and pool tendency node-locked Pio could acheive in real time. Presumably it would ANNIHILATE *runs away before someone launches exploitative argument*

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