Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em online cash games of all stakes, including pot-limit and cap games.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2009, 01:20 PM   #1
squizzel
banned
 
squizzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Blog link in profile.
Posts: 3,300
400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Villan is 32/22/1. Thoughts on my river fold. Thx.

Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Dixon01 (BB): $431.00
ScanX (UTG): $400.00
CloudySky85 (MP): $406.00
Br0k3n_Aces (CO): $429.00
PrnceImrahil (BTN): $584.00
Hero (SB): $647.20

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with T T
3 folds, PrnceImrahil raises to $14, Hero calls $12, 1 fold

Flop: ($32.00) J T K (2 players)
Hero checks, PrnceImrahil checks

Turn: ($32.00) A (2 players)
Hero bets $22, PrnceImrahil calls $22

River: ($76.00) K (2 players)
Hero bets $72, PrnceImrahil raises to $548 all in, Hero folds

Final Pot: $220.00
PrnceImrahil wins $217.00
(Rake: $3.00)
squizzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 01:25 PM   #2
Jinx
veteran
 
Jinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,142
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

not 3 betting pre is really bad. yeah fold riv.
Jinx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 01:28 PM   #3
blueson
old hand
 
blueson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,627
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

the liklyhood that he has AA is veryveryveryvery small, but its probably the only thing what makes sense

sorry for the non-construcitve post but i have no clue what im doing, but i dont hate a fold.

btw. i like donking what do you think?
blueson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 01:29 PM   #4
squizzel
banned
 
squizzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Blog link in profile.
Posts: 3,300
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

was going for the checkraise
squizzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 01:45 PM   #5
Imrahil
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 13,626
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

I'm not a huge fan of the turn bet. I mean I guess I could see villain calling the turn w/ an A or some other pair because you are repping a Q for the most part. The more I think about it the more I like betting the turn against certain opponents. But you have to be careful, because most opponents will never put you on a boat on the river and you can't bet/call Qx...
Imrahil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:23 PM   #6
whereitbe
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 117
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
not 3 betting pre is really bad
rly?
whereitbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:25 PM   #7
bias1
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: c/shipping the river
Posts: 2,065
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

your hand is completely and utterly underepped here and you has a boat. i call here all day
bias1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:27 PM   #8
ILikeTrees
old hand
 
ILikeTrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long island, NY
Posts: 1,302
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

would he really not bet AA/AK/KJ on flop? thats sorta hard to believe. unless he had KK or JJ and was 'slowplaying'.

the hand is really weird. esp river action. i'd think about calling. idk. depends on villain/history
ILikeTrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:31 PM   #9
sickofitall
veteran
 
sickofitall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: bustoville
Posts: 2,338
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imrahil View Post
I'm not a huge fan of the turn bet. I mean I guess I could see villain calling the turn w/ an A or some other pair because you are repping a Q for the most part. The more I think about it the more I like betting the turn against certain opponents. But you have to be careful, because most opponents will never put you on a boat on the river and you can't bet/call Qx...
good post. there is just (almost) no worse hand that is calling the turn that is not c-betting this flop. and given that your hand looks like a Q and the only hand for villain making sense is AA tilts that towards a call. but dont bet the turn and things are different...
sickofitall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:04 PM   #10
ThePortuguee
old hand
 
ThePortuguee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,317
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whereitbe View Post
rly?
I don't think so. I think on these threads people like to make dismissive comments on preflop play a lot. For one, though, it's generally difficult to criticize preflop play, especially in isolated circumstances, because before the flop you really do have a lot of freedom in terms of what you can profitably get away with, and also because you really should not be acting uniformly all the time.

Not acting uniformly is key in the long run, which is why I think it's silly to say that not reraising preflop here is really bad. I think a reraise with TT in this spot should probably be considered as the strongest course of action in most cases, but if you want to call sometimes that's just fine, IMHO.
ThePortuguee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:29 PM   #11
AfricStyle
adept
 
AfricStyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 975
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

do not agree that not 3betting preflop is a huge mistake.
But about donking turn i agree, there is no need in this bet. As for river i can't see this guy not betting his 2pairs/set hand on such flop, and maayybee hes pushing his Q, who knows. I'm inclined to call this sh**t, but be reade to see AA
AfricStyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 04:49 PM   #12
Upgrade_U
grinder
 
Upgrade_U's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: learning street poker
Posts: 575
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

3betting preflop is prob a bigger mistake than not doing so
don't bet turn (whats your line when raised?), as played NEVER EVER EVER folding (chked back flop=cant have 2pr+)

above is true only when villain is a tagreg, given AF idk wtf is going on so everything might change
Upgrade_U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 04:56 PM   #13
thepizzlefosho
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 6,206
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

pf does not have to be a 3bet. it's ok to flat here.

turn bet is pretty bad imo. River is probably a fold since villain can have both AK and AA in his flop check/turn call range. In fact that's probably how I'd play both of those hands. KJ and JJ would both bet the flop so we can take those out of his range. it's just a question of how often he would make this huge overbet shove with a bluff vs how often he's going to show you the nuts. I think it's a great spot to value over bet because if you have KJ and TT you're going to be really tempted to call against this line, and some terrible players might call with a Q to try and get a chop. So I'm folding.
thepizzlefosho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:11 PM   #14
All Father
old hand
 
All Father's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vinland
Posts: 1,912
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bias1 View Post
your hand is completely and utterly underepped here and you has a boat. i call here all day
i gotta see what he has too

prove it to me
All Father is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:18 PM   #15
AAismyfriend
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AAismyfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bluffing into dry sidepots
Posts: 11,841
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

I think preflop is fine, and I think this is a fold vs most. I guess i'd call vs spewier villains but wouldn't be very happy about it.
AAismyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:18 PM   #16
ddubois
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ddubois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Coconut Creek, FL
Posts: 7,695
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Weird hand. Since your hand is supposed to be a queen, would he try to bluff you off it? A thinking player knows you "can't call" with a Q here, right? But then what is he calling the turn with? Does anyone really check back AK/AA/KJ/KT/KK/JJ on a flop that drawy?

Yeah, seems like he's turning QJ/AJ into a bluff.

Last edited by ddubois; 01-06-2009 at 05:24 PM.
ddubois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:21 PM   #17
insyder19
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
insyder19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,163
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

How does villain ever have a boat here? He must have checked some TPTK type of hand behind on the flop. He watched the new DJ sensei series!!
insyder19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:24 PM   #18
Upgrade_U
grinder
 
Upgrade_U's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: learning street poker
Posts: 575
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

god editing is not an option ?

actually i think riv is more of a fold now given that he can have AK very easily and even though thats only one hand, its a very significant one
Upgrade_U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:26 PM   #19
thepizzlefosho
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 6,206
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19 View Post
How does villain ever have a boat here? He must have checked some TPTK type of hand behind on the flop. He watched the new DJ sensei series!!
I'd check back AK and AA on this flop all day. If you bet flop and villain c/r's you are in a pretty wtf spot and probably can't make a +EV decision. With either of those hands on that flop you want to keep the pot small and give villain a chance to bluff or value cut himself on later streets.

So if I'm villain I can show up with a boat here a lot Not JJ or KJ or KT, but with AK or AA.

But obviously I'm not villain and he might play that entirely different than I would and this could be a fist pump call. I just think it's way to big of an overbet to try and knock you off a chop.
thepizzlefosho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:27 PM   #20
ddubois
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ddubois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Coconut Creek, FL
Posts: 7,695
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Against me it's a fold, but against this guy I'm not so sure. Villain's sizing is awful if he wants to get value from QJ, given that OP folded a boat.
ddubois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:53 PM   #21
insyder19
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
insyder19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,163
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepizzlefosho View Post
I'd check back AK and AA on this flop all day. If you bet flop and villain c/r's you are in a pretty wtf spot and probably can't make a +EV decision. With either of those hands on that flop you want to keep the pot small and give villain a chance to bluff or value cut himself on later streets.

So if I'm villain I can show up with a boat here a lot Not JJ or KJ or KT, but with AK or AA.

But obviously I'm not villain and he might play that entirely different than I would and this could be a fist pump call. I just think it's way to big of an overbet to try and knock you off a chop.
Don't tell it in public!!!

Of course it's good to check behind stuff to get value on later streets.

We just bet all day against passive fish/regs.
insyder19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:53 PM   #22
holdme
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
holdme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,218
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddubois View Post
Against me it's a fold, but against this guy I'm not so sure. Villain's sizing is awful if he wants to get value from QJ, given that OP folded a boat.
this guy was like "im gonna raise huge against this guys range which very well could contain boats as well as a ton of straights because im going to get him to fold"?
holdme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:58 PM   #23
insyder19
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
insyder19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,163
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdme View Post
this guy was like "im gonna raise huge against this guys range which very well could contain boats as well as a ton of straights because im going to get him to fold"?
I've made way better moves and people snapped, and it was 200bb deep.
insyder19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 06:07 PM   #24
thepizzlefosho
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 6,206
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19 View Post
Don't tell it in public!!!

Of course it's good to check behind stuff to get value on later streets.

We just bet all day against passive fish/regs.
lol yeah cause people reference old 2p2 posts when playing 8 tables of MSNL
thepizzlefosho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 06:11 PM   #25
ThePortuguee
old hand
 
ThePortuguee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,317
Re: 400nl - i fold a boat for once wtf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19 View Post
I've made way better moves and people snapped, and it was 200bb deep.
I mean, sure, but that doesn't mean people don't make bluffs like this.

Reading what everyone had to say, there have been some good points made and it seems pretty close. I think a bluff makes sense, given the flop action, and he could be thinking exactly as holdme suggests (though perhaps he didnt believe it to be true): I'm going to make a big bet to move this guy off a chop. I feel like people do this all the time. They figure they're making a relatively low-risk play and forcing their opponent into a big decision for half the pot. The thinking goes more like "He wont fold a straight for a small bet, but how can he call with a big bet, and if he does have a straight and calls anyway, I'm fine here." I don't think a villain in this spot is thinking so much about trying to make OP fold a house.

At the same time, AA and AK are really quite reasonable. Sure, we'd expect a bet on the flop, but a check here is good from a pot-control perspective, as has been pointed out.

It could just be one of those spots where it's close enough taht the EV is about the same either way. I think a fold is fine, though myself i'm probably talking myself into a call and either dancing around the room or banging my head against the wall wondering why I don't just quit poker.
ThePortuguee is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive