My intention for calling the 4bet pre is for set mine value only assuming villain is almost always gii on the flop.

Villain stats:
333 hands
VP 22/ PFR 16 / 3B 11
He has 4bet 0 times out of 4 opportunities.
He has folded to 3bets 2 out of 4 opportunities.
From notes I know he has a polarized 3bet strategy at least when he's in the blinds vs. a steal. Not enough info to know if he also has 4bet bluffs in his range.

I wouldn't mind criticism on all 3 decision points for hero.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 149.16 BB (VPIP: 26.97, PFR: 22.47, 3Bet Preflop: 14.06, Hands: 181)
CO: 100.56 BB (VPIP: 22.39, PFR: 15.95, 3Bet Preflop: 11.36, Hands: 333)
BTN: 68.2 BB (VPIP: 21.36, PFR: 16.50, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 107)
SB: 119.04 BB (VPIP: 26.05, PFR: 22.69, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 123)
Hero (BB): 282.68 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T T

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 13 BB, CO raises to 28 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

Flop: (56.4 BB, 2 players) 3 2 3
Hero checks, CO bets 72.56 BB and is all-in, fold

CO wins 53.6 BB

0.88 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

If you call pre, you can't fold that flop. Just setmining isn't profitable.

Lol at villain's betsize on this flop.

You don't have any set mine value in a 100bb eff 4bet pot.

This hand is probably right near the top of your range, if you're folding this what are you calling besides JJ?

Just call it off and hope it’s AK

I can understand from a balance point of view, could be a bad fold in the long run. But in a vacuum if we put villain on JJ+/AK vs the pot odds I thought the call was pretty breakeven according to EV calcs if we assumed he always shoves his whole range. And for the pot odds offered on my preflop call do we have implied odds just to set mine if we assume we get his stack 100% when we do flop a set?

You don't have enough implied odds for the pure "setmine". Also we're obviously not going to get villain's stack everytime we flop a set, not only isn't he not gonna stack off with his entire range but he will have like 18% equity with a preflop overpair (if I recall correctly) when we flop a set.

At the point where we are facing the 4bet I am calling 15bb to see a flop where we will most likely grow the pot to 200bb. I know we don't always gii and I know villain does set over set or suck out sometimes when we do hit the set, but what do you think is the cutoff for stack depths before set mining is +EV? (considering folding at this point is zero EV). I've heard of the rule of 20x behind, I know we don't meet that here but the extremely high likelihood of getting it in I thought made up for it. Maybe I am thinking of this wrong?

Very. We're 8.5:1 to flop a set. Are we getting 8.5:1 in implied odds? Does it matter? We're going to lose sometimes so we should up this to at least 10:1.

In the hand we're calling 15bbs to win his stack + bets (100) and our preflop 3-bet (13). So we're getting 113:15 which isn't 10:1 so we should fold if we're just wanting to set mining. When it's close, you should be accounting for rake but in this spot, it's not even close.

If you can put villain on that exact range you should just be folding pre.

Thanks for laying that out for me. Guess I forgot that this 10x-20x rule is the effective stack and not the TOTAL pot. Yikes. Makes sense now that I should have either folded to the 4b pre or called with the intention of calling all flops when I have an overpair (assuming he makes the play with AK).

Appreciate the feedback guys.

Anyway setmining is an outdated concept. We're going to have the best hand without a set and being able to showdown and/or get value out of A high. We can bluff on a few run out as well. It's pretty much impossible to pinpoint our EV "setmining"

TT is a pretty solid bluffcatcher because it crushes lower connectors, it's in no way a "setmine"

Not convinced that villain is 4-betting too many lower connectors. My best guess is that worse hands calling yours are AK and sometimes 99. However, I think a lot of his range is crushing your hand.

Suited connectors, A8s and stuff

The hand is played terrible in all streets. As played, you cannot fold this on the flop.

Yes the others helped explain what was bad about my call 4bet and flop play. But I think my 3bet pre is fine knowing I'll be OOP postflop and closing the action preflop. I had a tight image (I was card dead) and this guy had a pretty reg co open frequency near 30%. I think I have fold equity preflop and his calling range is almost entirely behind TT. But please convince me otherwise, I'm learning still obviously.

There’s nothing wrong with preflop- 3bet call or 3bet jam spot in my opinion.

yes, it should be fine in theory

Pre is bad because you make it 13BB against 3BB with depolarized range 100bb deep (given the fact that TT is in your 3 bet range against CO, it is depolarized). You 3bet is just huge.

I thought standard 3bet sizing would be about 3x and OOP 4x, would you vary sizing if your range was polar vs linear? Or would you make it smaller either way? Curious as im also focusing more on 3bet strategy since I just switched to 6max last month. And I think just because I am 3betting vs co TT can be part of a decent polarized range where it's the bottom of my value TT+/AQ+ and we toss in some bluffs. If I'm 3betting vs UTG I would not include TT in either range.

I'll do some math later. I want to compare EV of calling pre with EV of 3betting 13 BB with TT against say 27% of CO standard open range. I suppose EV of calling should be higher.

what program do you use in order to calculate that?

It is called Excel plus equilab

See you in a year then

Seriously though how are you going to figure out the EV of calling?

Definitely interested in what you find, it is hard to quantify the disadvantages of playing OOP on what will usually end up being a flop with 1 or more overcards vs. Our prospects of taking it down preflop or at least taking initiative as the aggressor if villain calls our 3bet. I am trying to get more comfortable with going into bluff catch mode but feel I'd be folding to a ton of double barrels on most boards with TT as an underpair.

I like considering all the branches, someone mentioned card runners EV does this but all I have for software is flopzilla at the moment. But yeah figuring the EV of calling realistically would have to take into account lots of postflop possibilities. I can supply some cbet Stats on villain if that would be helpful, I don't think I did in the OP.