Villain is 16/12/66% steal/78% Fold to 3bet
Thoughts on how terrbile 3betting OOP w/ 109s is, and also sizing, and flop play.

165 Hands w/ villain.

I prefer to flat here as SC have a lot of play ability post-flop for me. However if you're unsure how to extract money post with this hand when you hit AND when you miss, fold pre.

3-betting is OKAY as you should be making out right profit with his high steal% and high fold to resteal% and isn't the worst hand to play in a 3-bet pot with lots of potential equity but not great.

This is the worst possible spot to c/r, what are you trying to rep? The case quads? Villain won't fold any of his pairs and playing quads like this is terribad.

c/f flop, c/f turn and c/f river.

I just didn't think c/r would be bad in the event that he bets when checked to w/ any pocket pair, and I may take this line with a hand like AA/QQ/JJ. But, I guess double-barreling would've been better?, assuming he will flat flops with a hand like 99 and fold turns? I guess this was just a terribad flop.

fold pre. I have a lot of SCs in my pf range but I don't play them OOP.

Contrary to a lot of popular belief, SCs are terrible 3betting hands OOP. In 3bet pots, you want to play showdown value hands - so bluff with your Ax/Kx hands - not implied odds / fold-equity reliant hands. This is because the SPR is a lot lower so your fold equity is much lower as well. When bluffing it doesn't matter what you have when villain folds; it's how your hand plays postflop against his continuance range that really matters. Also with 9Thh you don't block much of his continuance range vs a 3bet so he will fold less often.

On this flop I would c/f. Also c/f turn and river. You rep nothing when you c/r flop because you should be betting your value hands here as he checks behind a lot of the hands (mid to high pp's) that you get value from.

Villain has JJ-QQ most likely and is never folding.

99s is in the bottom of his range and is unlikely. You're looking at JJ+ that isn't folding enough of the time.

Must be a preference thing, these are the hands I love playing IP and OOP. But not baby sc.

SG are waaaaay more fun and get paid more imo though.

fold to 3-bet is nice, but do you have his fold to resteal info?

as played, check-shove turn.

Its the old SC vs AXs debate about which set of hands is best for light 3betting. After a million hands Im still undecided.
Any 50NL+ regs want to explain their preference?

nothing wrong with the 3bet, its pretty standard vs a 78% fold to 3bet

the flop though which is what the hand is about is wow... wtf?... bro do you know your repping AK preflop that got quads?, and even then why would you check raise quads??.... like seriously bro just fold the flop, he will never fold on this flop like ever in life & your now going to have to put majority or all of your stack in repping AA/ak vs his 99-qq & sometimes aq/ak/kq so i dont why you would bluff there cause he has more pairs in his range than unpaired hands & your going to be repping way too thin for him to make a "good fold"

this is not what he's repping. he's repping a pocket pair, with smaller ones being more likely. villain's range is probably wider than 99+, but probably includes smaller pocket pairs. it generally isn't a great strategy to try and make someone fold a boat though, esp. when you look like you're trying to make someone fold a boat.

id prefer to 3B Ax and Kx suited hands if OOP

Unless BTN called id just fold OOP

We can not say if preflop is fine, unless we know how villain sees you and how you reacted to his steal attempts so far.

For the SCs vs suited aces discussion, i'd say suited aces are better to resteal with, because we have blockers to AA and AK...

3betting PF is not horrible but I'd prefer to flat and play against villains super wide stealing range especially since I don't think the average 25NL reg is going to be able to play his 66% stealing range very well. Sizing looks fine to me.

As played, this is a flop I would be c/f'ing. The majority of his range is not folding to a cbet and cbetting is just burning money.

I also don't like the c/r, none of his value hands are folding and we don't have a very good idea of villain's range/tendencies so I assume villain has a standard TAG range for calling our 3bet, something like TT+, AQ+ and against that range c/r'ing this flop is bad.

THIS THIS THIS THIS!!! +1000!!

^^^ this this this -1000... flatting to play a hand with no show down value oop= eww

3bet & overep your hand= more fold equity and when you flop big & he has good enough you certainly get stacks in vs flatting & going to sd losing a tonne or winning the min when you flop big, overall its just ehh to flat.. when you 3bet preflop going into post you can rep just such a wide range of value hands as opposed to flatting and then having to rep sets or air so often in which case its just not good imo....

I'm not saying 3-bet is wrong, but I prefer Kx and Ax hands to 3-bet with.

If I believe I can outplay them post flop with a hand with great playability especially against a 66% range why would I want to 3-bet?

I wouldn't recommend it for OP but when he gets better post these are great hands to flat imo.

A lot of the value in flatting a hand like 9Ts is that we will flop decent draws/equity a large amount of the time and can take the pot away from villain a huge amount of the time since his range is SO SO wide.

3-betting is profitable as well but flatting will have a higher expectation if we are aggressive post-flop and don't play fit or fold.


1. Over-repping our hand while simultaneously forcing villain to continue with a stronger range is a horrible plan.

2. How do you figure we have better fold equity against a tighter range???

3. The % of times we flop a monster that can crack an overpair/TP type of hand is so low I don't think it should be a deciding factor when considering whether to 3-bet or flat PF.

4. We can rep more value hands by flatting than by 3betting DUCY?

5. If we flat, we don't have to rep a set or better to get villain to fold because his range is super wide. We could rep bottom pair no kicker and get him to fold a large part of his range.


P.S. Why you change your avatar lol?

Flatting this in the SB heads up is sooooooo bad. 3-betting is far superior.

With his steal and fold to 3bet stats I'm 3betting all day but wtf are you doing on the flop? Your bluff was planned for a preflop steal, he called it why are you going crazy postflop with air now?

This is basically the way I feel about it. I'm fine with it preflop but we didn't get the fold we wanted. At that point I'm only going into check fold mode unless we flop a nice draw, two pair, etc. We completely missed the flop and he has a ton of boats and even quads in his range. I don't want to try to bluff that range.

Thanks.

You can flat SCs but can't profitably play fit-or-fold postflop (still a work in progress for me). 3betting as a bluff is fine - you're trying for a fold, I agree w/ above it didn't work out, so we took our shot and now we move on. check/fold, especially on this board where we rep so little.

PS: I grunched much of this thread, looks like many of my points are repeats.

First time I ever 3bet him. Not sure how he views me now after he saw my hand, guess I'll have a pretty tight 3betting range/ check raise range vs. him from now on until I think he knows I adjusted. If he even noted me or has a tracker.

The more I look at this hand the more I throw up.

Why?

This is the answer. If you just call to hit a hand than you will loose money. You need to be good posflop and know villain's c-betting tendencies and exploit them. By just playin fit or fold you'll loose a lot, because the main time you don't hit a hand and if you don't do well postflop you'll also loose, because you end up spewing...