Quote:
Originally Posted by threads13
For sure man, but imo those aggressive games are more like 2/4 or higher games(there are certainly a few players but most guys like that at 50NL, 100NL, or even 200NL just move up).
I agree that the situation may cause me to do something entirely different, but I think default calling AA is a better place to start than default 4-betting it versus standard TAGs at the small and micro stakes.
I agree with you that calling 3bets is usually better than 4betting in micro stakes.
I think it gets really close if we move up to stakes where people understand that our 3bet calling range in some spots will be incredibly narrow and by that allow them to play pretty much optimal (say we open AA in UTG, MP 3bets, we call. 100BBs stacks). Balancing becomes a more important issue there imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threads13
Right, well obviously he isn't likely to c/s JJ/TT here that much, but he also isn't that likely to flat AA pre. It really gets to be an estimating thing. The thing is we have an overpair to the board and if he is ever doing this as a bluff then folding getting 2-to-1 can be a huge mistake.
The real crux of the argument is if he is not shoving here often enough for us to call then how big of a deal is it to check the flop? it's not a big deal and in fact it's probably a better play. If he isn't shoving JJ/TT here then we aren't stacking JJ/TT so we might as well just check the flop. And then if you take that one step further then if we can't bet this flop then why did we 3-bet preflop(this one is less obvious because there can be good reasons to 3-bet preflop then check the flop... but the basic idea is true). Which is why if I'm betting this flop I'm committed and just calling it off.
Let me know if I didn't explain that well.
I think we both can pretty easily agree that flatting > 3betting PF in this spot.
I don't really agree though with checking the flop with QQ, the reasons being:
- hands that contain an overcard have either 3 or 6 outs against us. Assuming villain never calls a turn bet with A hi if he bricks and we bet then I don't see the value in checking back on the flop.
- if villain has JJ,TT then there are 10 scare cards in the deck that might easily keep him from putting any more money in the pot. I'm not necessarily saying that villain will stack off here with JJ,TT but he won't c/f either on this flop.
- if we operate under the assumption that villain is not putting any more money in on this flop then checking would also be kind of bad because we're giving him a freeroll on his 2 outer.
So yeah, for me it's a b/call as well.