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09-28-2013 , 08:08 PM
Villain is 37/29 in just 36 hands ; he stole me the BB last 2 orbits ; aggro but not maniac

Is the fold nitty ? i am not very happy with my fold althought he is pot commited so no FE shoving and if we stove his range we are slighty behind :

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.510% 46.38% 01.13% 24796 603.00 { AdJd }
Hand 1: 52.490% 51.36% 01.13% 27458 603.00 { 77+, T9s, 98s, JTo, 98o }


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #19692451

SB: $26.63 (106.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $37.52 (150.1 bb)
CO: $10.25 (41 bb)
BTN: $10.25 (41 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J A
2 folds, SB raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) 7 T 8 (2 players)
SB bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3.50, SB raises to $8.25, Hero folds
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09-28-2013 , 08:45 PM
UU
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Originally Posted by tpro86
I feel like i post this every time i see a hand history on here, but his range is so wide that there is hole bunch of crap that could have got there on this flop, I dont fancy us much against sets, t8, j9, 69 maybe overpairs also which are all perfctly possible. I think when he makes the three bet on the flop you can narrow it to that selection of hands, maybe kq diamonds as well but im not really loving life in this spot. I dont think the fold is correct because of your nut flush equity, and your getting decent imediate odds, but when the inevitable jam on the turn comes i dont like the choice of call or fold.

Im going to say it again, but if you 3bet preflop you can narrow his range considerably, and can then navigate this flop alot easier, I.e: It would most likely go sb checks, hero bets $2, sb raises to $5.50 hero calls...............hero binks the 2 of diamonds on the turn and stacks villan with the nut flush.

These spots are always horrible though, as it looks like this is set vs nut flush draw and its just a horrible spot to be in with the big draw which you really feel like you cant fold.
ok i agree with 3bet pre of course but i lost myself reading your post So (as played , no 3bet pre) is it clear to you to shove? Uummmi think villain´s range is very strong , he bets all pot first and reraises later....
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09-28-2013 , 11:30 PM
this is a decent hand to 3-bet pre, but I would just be doing it for value and not for information.

As played, I have no idea how you can fold on the flop. You've got plenty of equity against his range to call the flop 3-bet.
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09-29-2013 , 02:41 AM
Not to hijack the thread but I had exact same hand earlier, except I had KQ and I shoved. He turned over nut flush draw to my K high.

Would the advice be different for KQ vs Ace high?
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09-29-2013 , 04:27 AM
You don't need to be better than 50% equity with money already in the pot.

Also your range is missing stuff like Kd9d Qd9d Qd7 Kd7 etc which really helps improve out overall equity.

Get it in for sure.
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09-29-2013 , 11:18 AM
I doubt many Villain's are bluffing when they're 3-betting this flop, so I don't like shoving unless we think a lot of worse combo draw hands call which I doubt. I think calling is the pretty much the best option here. Shoving is only better if you think the Villain doesn't pay off when you hit your hand, but I don't think that's very likely given that he 3-bet the flop.
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09-29-2013 , 12:47 PM
I think if you're folding here, the flop raise is a mistake. Price is maybe i little to bad for flat calling, but I think you'll get the river for free often enough.

You just invested ~40% of youre effective stack and have a hand that has equity vs any other hand.


Equity Win Tie
UTG 54.27% 53.39% 0.88% (TT+, 88-77)
UTG+1 45.73% 44.86% 0.88% (AdJd)

This is you're equity if he has just overpairs and sets in his range.
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09-29-2013 , 03:37 PM
No one think hero should have flatted the flop?

As played, short handed like this, and with the equity we have I will go AI for sure.
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09-29-2013 , 04:01 PM
Flatting flop is good also, I prefer a flat but it's not a big deal.

Not sure how short handed factors in but just because we have equity to get it in doesn't make it higher EV than flatting. Do u think Villsin folds much after he 3-bet the flop?
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09-29-2013 , 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EmptyPromises
Flatting flop is good also, I prefer a flat but it's not a big deal.

Not sure how short handed factors in but just because we have equity to get it in doesn't make it higher EV than flatting. Do u think Villsin folds much after he 3-bet the flop?
Yea, I know, I am agreeing with, both lines are probably +ve, but which one is the greater +ve?

I don't think he folds at all once he 3bets the flop, why?

About shorthandedness, I would think villain would be playing wider postflop, no?
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09-29-2013 , 06:27 PM
I'm shipping the flop for sure
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09-30-2013 , 06:16 PM
Against villain's apparent image through 3-4 orbits, 4b shipping flop and it's not even close. If we had more information on villain, arguments can be made for just calling the initial raise, or raise/calling vs his bet/3bet on the flop. However, if you notice, there's no fold in there. We have too much equity against everything including the nuttiest of nut hands he can flop to be folding with money in the pot + price we're receiving.
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09-30-2013 , 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NJD77
You don't need to be better than 50% equity with money already in the pot.

Also your range is missing stuff like Kd9d Qd9d Qd7 Kd7 etc which really helps improve out overall equity.

Get it in for sure.
wow i never thought about these wide ranges....as you say it improves my equity a lot
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09-30-2013 , 07:27 PM
Once you raise the flop, you can't fold.
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