im advocating changing your style against different opponents.

lol....actually im running like god lately. reading all the fake bs spouted by the experts on 2p2 just tilts me.

Hey Limon. Awesome thread. Im a regular backgammon player and a recreational poker player. However, I have followed this thread because you have offered such great insight into the gambling world in general. But in reading all this I have noticed that you just dont really seem to like it. You said in your first post that when you were younger you loved games, and when you got older you fell in love with poker etc. but it seems like you really hate the current poker scene. the grind, the degenerates etc. and more recently saying that nobody is reaching their full potential playing poker. So my question is, you seem like a really bright guy. what is stopping you from getting into a normal job? surely you could just jump into a job in finance or whatever. whats the deal. Im not at all trying to give advice or anything, just curious.

id say almost none of it is training and almost all of it is the recession. i could run off a list of 6 names that were in the top section nearly every morning with pockets full of cash in 2007 all were real estate agents and mortgage brokers a couple of self proclaimed day traders. now only 1 of those guys is still a reg and he buys in short half the time. the others come in sporadically and play twice as tight as they used to and its not because they watched a video, its because they are broke and want their 1 buy in to last so they dont have to go home.

i believe i said almost nobody. im prob one of the people who couldnt be doing much else. maybe not. if i ever stop posting youll know i moved to cambria and opened a b&b.

I don't think this is anything new for online players. Even small stakes guys know, for example, if a reg has a low call 3bet %, then it's better to 3bet him wider for value and less as a bluff. Same with adjusting cbet and barreling ranges, etc. Granted online we had HUD giving us that information, but playing 1 table live gives more information than a HUD does for multi-tablers.

I make these adjustments in live play as well, but almost always in position. I find myself playing the vast majority of my hands from HJ/CO/BT. Can you give some examples of what you do in earlier positions that LAG/position players don't?

wat?

zomg, limon read this:

http://www.themorningnews.org/articl...lways-the-high

guy claims to have lost 12k in the commerce 400 game. lmao. is that even possible, lol? also don't mind your thoughts about the article. i found it pretty lol. now i see why you and bart are so happy living in la and playing midstakes poker for a living.

I think obviously he meant low fold to 3b % then you can 3bet wider for value. Unless I am ******ed - It must be a mistype

i think there is a proper place and time to open limp hands and overlimp hands against certain players and in certain lineups. there are certain players you punish more by overlimping them late than you do by raising them w/ your weaker hands that still have value. this is not a widely held belief amongst the younger crowd and even some old timers think position will overcome starting w/ the worst hand so they always raise a limper even w/ their small sc's and med gappers and klits.

pretty good article.the guy is definitely a loser but he describes it well. losing 12k in that game is insane but ive seen people run up 10k in that game many times so....

yes, obv.

yeah, thanks. this is pretty much what i've been doing. just not so much oop unless i'm certain the players behind me won't squeeze.

"when you first start out, poker will be fun and interesting. you need to use this honeymoon period to grind massive hours because, unless you have some sort of mental disorder, poker will become really lame really fast as you get older and find a world filled with much more interesting complex fulfilling endeavors. "

I don't think this is said enough and I definitely agree. The world has a lot more 3-dimensional things to offer and after having some success myself and making other choices than playing bigger and bigger limits, I find myself really not respecting the "best players" as human beings very much at all. I don't know how people stay interested in the subtleties of the game for so long it's kind of amazing but not really impressive.

I have heard Harrington talk about limping in softer games to extract maximum value by outplaying your opponents post flop.

i.e. limping multiway getting more more money in then iso the soft spots and and extracting max value etc.

yeah, i thought that too, wanted to make sure since i'm not online player

Limon,

Don't know if you want to answer this on here. Send me a PM if you don't. I'm constantly amazed by how much you're willing to share about playing live.

I was just thinking about the tell of players pre-loading their bets in a genuine way (not in a deceptive way). In my opinion, this is a tell you're much more likely to see in multi-way pots, just because people's guards are down the more people there are in the pot. In heads-up pots, most players (unless they're completely horrible) know they should not be giving away this information. (If anything, in a heads-up pot, they're more likely to use a fake pre-load as a way to prevent their opponent from betting.)

What do you think of this? Do you think a genuine pre-loading tell is more liable to be witnessed in a multi-way pot?

And if you answer this, I'll owe you one.

This thread is genius. I love Limon and everyone else....not playing favorites.

Regarding poker as living. Life is about finding happiness, and this is defined very differently depending on the person. Some people need money, some don't, some people need marriage and a partner, some don't, some people need freedom, some need boundaries, some people need stimulation, some don't. Some people know from a very young age what they want to do with their lives, some never really decide. Every human being leads a completely unique existence, and this starts at a very young age.

I know all that sounds obvious, but it's crazy if you think about how often people will let the "norm", the clinically acceptable, or the standard social norms affect their decisions and feelings about their lives....but I digress.

I don't know how a professional poker player could only play days and expect to make even close to their potential hourly rate. Last night I walked by the top section at Commerce at 4AM, only to see a 20/40 game revolving around Jack Halley (a gigantic fish who used to play in the NBA), and a couple spew tards. Phil Laak was in the game. It's hard to bum hunt if you're not playing at night. Most recreational players have day jobs, so, obviously there's going to be more fish at night inherently.

i love you too

Thanks for the thread limon. I've read through over the last couple of days and it has given me a lot to think about.

I'm transitioning to playing live small stakes and the idea of just playing straightforward until someone lets you know they are aware of what you are doing is one that I really like. Previously I think I tried too hard to outplay people and got involved in way too many hands.

There is a subset of small-business owners who go to work in the morning, get things running, then leave for the afternoon with their cell phones until it's time to go home and face the wife. These guys and certain trustfunders can make up a very good afternoon lineup. But of course it's all a matter if who you are looking for--who suits your style of play.

Playing fm noon-midnight instead of 6-6 saves about 1.5 hrs on the commute fm the west si-ide (and mental sharpness bc it's stressful in traffic esp if you're constantly looking for the fastest lanes) and allows you to have something of a [social] life.

12 hours of poker!?! ouch. i cant even imagine it. 90% of my sessions are from 10ish til 3ish.

preloading tells are by far most common pre-flop, and, pre flop is a multi way pot, so ya, its more common in multi way pots. people pre load because they have the time to decide what they want to do, hu they dont have that time, watching other people act (very slowly at times) give them the time to make a decision and prepare.

Right. Pre-flop's the most multi-way spot possible, so it's the most likely place to see the tells that give away real intentions. You're right; it's pretty much only ever pre-flop, or occasionally in a big multi-way limped pot on the flop. I guess it's mainly about people's guards being down because they don't think there's much downside to being careless about their intentions in those spots.

Thanks for the response, kind sir.

gotta stick ard long enuf to get the whales stuck and reloading, red bull it, maybe make it a 20-hr sess... you're right though it's prob counterproductive to play more than 8 hrs/day (5-6 days/wk) unless the game is esp good, although you would have to work dbl that if you ever hope to dethrone ivey, mr limon..