10/20 turn spot - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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10/20 turn spot

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08-19-2009 , 02:56 PM

nuggetz87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 15,728

villain is an ok reg...laggier than most both pre and post flop. BB is a fish.

bet again? check? vs. a bet of 250? vs. a bet of 400?

Poker Stars $10/$20 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $3291.00
BTN: $2000.00
SB: $2100.00
BB: $2751.00
Hero (UTG): $2030.00
MP: $2147.00

Pre Flop: ($30.00) Hero is UTG with T

Hero raises to $60, MP calls $60, 3 folds, BB calls $40

Flop: ($190.00) 3

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $140, MP calls $140, BB folds

Turn: ($470.00) 3

(2 players)

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08-19-2009 , 03:02 PM

Peligro!

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,578

I think it's 310/fold. I'd like a turn bet even more if the 3c was of any other suit.

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08-19-2009 , 03:06 PM

ooooooooooh

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,717

Yeah, I think peligro has it about right. I think I like a little bit bigger betsize, but like you said, I bet a little bigger than you in general

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08-19-2009 , 03:19 PM

LucidDream

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,714

what about c/c, c/f. i think its def better w/ 99 but still maybe better than betting given the situation.

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08-19-2009 , 03:27 PM

sh58

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,335

c/c

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08-19-2009 , 03:27 PM

ooooooooooh

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,717

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucidDream

what about c/c, c/f. i think its def better w/ 99 but still maybe better than betting given the situation.

I think this line loses value against 77, 88, 99 (which actually makes up a pretty decent part of his range) and still costs the same amount against better hands. It also turns our hand completely face up, which better players will take advantage of.

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08-19-2009 , 03:27 PM

oldjude

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,257

I think betting here will rarely get called by worse.

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08-19-2009 , 03:29 PM

ooooooooooh

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,717

In fact, I might even like a c/f on the turn better than a c/c. I just can't see him betting anything that we beat on the turn (except v rarely 77,88,99) and any other hand that he bets the turn with is betting the river as well.

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08-19-2009 , 03:34 PM

LucidDream

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,714

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooooooooooh

meh, i think pretty much the opposite except for the part about it turns our hand face up...thats obv true. i think betting turns our hand face up tho too and thus loses value from 77/88 and maybe 99 tho prob not 99. i also think hes pretty often going to bet turn for protection and chk back river w/ those hands. i just think the fact that in this situation(BB being a fish) he is more likely to have overpairs in his range and less likely to be floating the flop and all that stuff combined possibly makes chk'ing better.

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08-19-2009 , 03:46 PM

#10

schreech26

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,310

+1 for c/c the turn.

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08-19-2009 , 03:47 PM

#11

ooooooooooh

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,717

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucidDream

Betting clearly does not turn our hand face up. We have every hand in our range when we bet, and when we check we lose a fair amount of them (i.e. sets, probably aces and kings, etc).

Given that Jem's raise was from UTG and caller was UTG+1, I think the BB being in the hand doesn't mean that he'll have more overpairs. If he has aces or kings or something, I think he's just as likely to threebet pre as he normally would be.

I think in general I prob agree that he doesn't float the flop a ton, but I could certainly see him taking one off with AK or AQ (against which betting the turn is clearly better).

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08-19-2009 , 03:47 PM

#12

LucidDream

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,714

i guess i should mention too i realize our play is completely unbalanced but i think thats fine in this situation. OP says villain is an OK reg. if villain was a very good reg that obv changes things.

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08-19-2009 , 04:00 PM

#13

bias1

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,065

never never c/c here. we are losing so much value against overpairs we are currently beating. we are really only worried about JJ and very rarely QQ.

the majority of his calling range would be 55,77,88,99, AQs, and sometimes AKs that decided to peel flop. we lose too much value against these hands.

also its completely unbalanced, unless you do this with AA.

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08-19-2009 , 04:14 PM

#14

LucidDream

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,714

Quote:

Originally Posted by bias1

well if u completely discount QQ-AA from his range then its pretty clearly a bet. idk why u discount this tho. any decent reg at 10/20 should recognize this as being a good spot to flat those hands.

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08-19-2009 , 04:24 PM

#15

schreech26

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,310

we should be worried about JJ+, sets and quads

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08-19-2009 , 04:24 PM

#16

akatheworst

banned

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 61

I thought this was a spot where we're betting until we get raised.

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08-19-2009 , 04:29 PM

#17

Peligro!

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,578

What would your standard be on the flop if MP raises? Call flop fold turn? Call flop c/r turn b/c you think he flats his entire value range? 3bet/call flop thinking you could induce a spaz?

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08-19-2009 , 05:37 PM

#18

Dexter_08

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 136

I c/c, c/f here too - dont see much value in betting turn

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08-19-2009 , 06:07 PM

#19

babaar

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,650

I thought this was a pretty standard spot to bet

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08-19-2009 , 06:17 PM

#20

gorlom

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,662

+1 for cc turn and cf river

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08-19-2009 , 08:21 PM

#21

jackwilcox

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,843

i dont see how c/c turn and c/f river is best at all. he's either betting turn and river for value or checking it down. i dont see what part of his value range would bet the turn then check back the river

similarly if he bluffs on the turn with a flop float, he will bluff the river too unless he improves to a hand that beats TT since he wont have showdown value.

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08-19-2009 , 08:45 PM

#22

LucidDream

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,714

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwilcox

1) protection

2) whats he floating w/?

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08-19-2009 , 08:47 PM

#23

TheQuietAnarchist

Formerly xorbie

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,826

c/f is fine

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08-19-2009 , 09:31 PM

#24

ATOTHEC101

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,957

I def bet turn, 325 snds fine to me, I really don't get c/c and I hate c/f. I'm gonna be d.barreling this board often enough with air so balancing my range with made hands is fairly important imo. If I'm checking 1010 (I get that he occasionally flats bigger pairs in pos) what made hands am I betting bar trips/boats...

In regards to c/fing, considering he'll be betting almost 100 percent of his range when checked to, including loads of worse hands, c/fing is terrible to.