Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 41398
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bencoy81 (BB): $50.00
Hero (UTG): $136.55
fainoadonkey (MP): $64.25
figo1981 (CO): $158.00
pzoxic (BTN): $47.45
Warren96 (SB): $33.75

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $1.75, 2 folds, pzoxic calls $1.75, Warren96 calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($5.75) K 7 3 (3 players)
Warren96 checks, Hero bets $4, pzoxic calls $4, Warren96 calls $4

Turn: ($17.75) J (3 players)
Warren96 checks, Hero bets $11, pzoxic calls $11, Warren96 calls $11

River: ($50.75) T (3 players)
Warren96 checks, Hero requests TIME, Hero????




Warren is tha nut terrible and can have any two so i am not to concerned with being behind him. kinda feel like he is irrelevant minus the fact that it can alter how the pzoxic plays his hand. pzoxic seems reasonable. has been at the table 20 mins and i have not noticed any thing too donkish. he has called oop a couple times and donked the flop. but up to this point he hasnt shown down any hands that would b of note and has not taken n e lines that stuck out as non standard. he has been opening and betting weird amounts like 1.2 preflop and weird **** like that (i dont kno how to interpret this but maybe this will help )

so my question is wut r ur over all thoughts on the river? shove, c/c or c/f and why? please note pzoxic has roughly 30 behind on the river and the donkey has like 10 or sumting insignificant. ill discuss my thoughts, wut i did and why later for u to discuss that.

I like lemons

hero bets more on the turn and ships the river

edit ur post u whore

edited to bold for u

I jam, because the pot is to big imo to c/f here. only kt got there on the river, and I think kj/set raises turn as the board is super drawy.

Turn bet sizing is the problem with this hand imo, you bet too small if only pro calls the turn, bet/fold ~15 is perfect imo, makes your river decision crystal clear.

wow strange hand.. almost tempted to c/f or c/c depending on betsize since pzoxic has to play pretty straightforward given your line and the donk calling with any two. my question is will pzoxic fold enough to a shove to allow you to get value from the donk.. haven't seen a hand like this in a while.

I think I c/c or c/f because if he's solid as you say, I don't think he's calling your value bet with worse, and the only thing that is worse that could call is KQ anyway.

Nothing really got there that makes sense other than JcTc or 8c9c, and I think I prefer a c/f to a c/c tbh, I don't expect him to have a ton of hands he could bluff.

i like lemonade. without pulp plz

yea i think this is a big part of the senario that might b over looked. tha donkey has 20-30bbs that are essentially mine but this random dude who i dont know a ton about is in the middle

What do you guys think about b/fold, for the donkeys stack?

What a dumb post.

i hate to even think this here, but i'm leaning heavily towards c/f. solid guy isn't going to be bluffing any missed draws with this fish in the pot, he's prolly checking back KQ, idk what his 3bet % is but he probably never has AK. pretty sure if you c/c you're gonna see KT, JTcc type stuff alot. im sure somebody could stove a range where shoving is profitable against his whole range plus dead money from the fish calling with like A3o but in this spot, i honestly don't think you're good very often if you cc

vern, hennerz edited his post so he didnt give away information about the hand

The odds would be too large to ever bet fold.

Assume donkey calls, we bet $10, proz bumps it to $30, donkey calls, we are left closing the action $20 into a a $100 pot. I don't think I could fold on the river for 5:1. But then I suck at NL50 too. I think I shove river and if proz has me beat so be it. He may see a shove as having odds to call (if donkey is going to call he is putting $30 into $90, effectively closing the action) even with some very weak hands. He may even read it as a chance by us to see SD with just the donkey and call very light.

I think c/f is prob. fine after doin some thinking about how horrible the turn/river peeled off. There's no way pzoxic is ever turning KQ or AcJc into a bluff and shoving the river b/c of the donk specifically.

can't do this

This is actually what I would probably do here. There's obviously some value from the donk still since we're way ahead of his range, and the other player in the hand isn't going to bluff shove, or shove over with a lighter range, so I think that's fine.

i'm dumb. i didnt think that through very well at all. this looks good.

this is so mind blowing but possibly amazing. haha. <3 hawk

Think people are making this way too complicated. We have 30 back, and a bet of 30 (from us or button) leaves us putting in 30 to win 80. So no way in hell I'm folding here with the nut overpair.

Why are we just assuming we're beat here though? Because we got to the river with only one pair? (And an overpair at that).
What are we assuming Button has here? The Ten hasn't hit any straight draw, so it's either made him two pair or not changed anything. Nor is he likely to have gotten to the river with TT.

Button can easily call a river bet of 30 here to win 80 with a King (some genius' with even less). We're playing a guessing game as to his range after that (Good Jacks, QT). And it's pretty hard to put him on a strong hand (any set, even the KJ two pair).

So he's either ahead of us with two pair plus, or behind us with top/2nd pair.
If he's ahead and we check he's betting it all always.
If he's behind he's checking most all of it (except maybe the strongest Kings).

So we're just better off putting the money in ourselves and hoping he calls with a worse hand (given there's hardly any bluffing hands, missed draws, he can have).

We really don't need to worry about putting in 30 to win 80 with the nut overpair here. This is 50NL. These aren't rocket surgeons. Randoms call with all sorts of dumb ****.
Stick it in for the added value.

Get it in. What's the big deal about saving $20? pzoxic can be expected to have KQ way more than he has KJ/KT by your description. If he turns up with something slightly unexpected like AcQc/JJ, then good on him. In terms of EV, the best we can hope for is to save a very small amount by b/f (in terms of value lost by not shoving versus money saved by b/f).

Good description of the situation though.

Put the money in buddy

yea bet moer on the turn
why are u betting 11$ into a 17.50$ 3way ???!?!

b/f imo