zNL5 4bet bluff that got value vs shove river. - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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zNL5 4bet bluff that got value vs shove river.

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01-21-2018 , 11:47 AM

genelypse

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 11

I played this hand on 5NL zoom and idk if my line was ok.

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37929414

BTN: $17.52 (350.4 bb)
SB: $6.02 (120.4 bb)
BB: $5.14 (102.8 bb)
UTG: $5 (100 bb)
Hero (MP): $7.70 (154 bb)
CO: $6.15 (123 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9

UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.15, CO folds, BTN raises to $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.15, BTN calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.37) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($2.37) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, BTN calls $1.20

River: ($4.77) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $15.17 and is all-in, Hero folds

Spoiler:

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I 4betted as bluff because generally this guys very deep playing zoom have super light 3bet ranges, on this case i didn't have any info about the vilain, only 2 hands on the HUD. After he called i decided to play as bluff catcher OTF, when he checked back i betted the turn to extract value of some KQ, KJ. I imagine he would've x back this hands on the river but...

How could i have played this better?

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01-21-2018 , 11:52 AM

Feng Shui

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 595

I think we can c/c turn , maybe make a small river value bet if turn checks back. Id still fold pre though. I think this might be a slight over adjustment which isn't really needed if your using a solid preflop strategy.

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01-21-2018 , 01:04 PM

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

I don’t like the 4bet versus a random. Turn is a pretty easy check/call.

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01-21-2018 , 05:50 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Pick better hands to 4bet in these positions. Turn bet is fine assuming we have bluffs in our range. Have to call river, probably not always but very often with Ax.

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01-21-2018 , 05:52 PM

genelypse

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 11

Thanks for the advice, i'll check/call next time i face this situation. And if he cbets on the river in this spot, is fold on a half pot bet?

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01-21-2018 , 06:43 PM

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Regardless of what hands you 4bet bluff with I dont think we should ever go for value on flop or turn with just top pair on ace broadway boards (unless you know v is a fish who will call down kq or jj). V should never be flatting a worse ace and probably doesn't call JJ very often. We just have a bluff catcher and dont want to value own ourselves.

We also dont need a 4bet bluff range at 5nl.

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01-21-2018 , 06:55 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

I'm pretty sure we have to bet turn with just Ax if we want to bluff at a reasonable frequency. We should bet the flop at a high frequency with range our advantage and that includes Ax.

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01-21-2018 , 07:02 PM

genelypse

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

We also dont need a 4bet bluff range at 5nl.

At 2 nl I didn't have one, but when i started playing 5nl the difference was brutal, i'm being 3betted all the time and what i did to defend myself was put some bluffs on my 4bet range, what do you think is best? Just call more IP with hands that plays ok post flop and only 4bet OOP with value?

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01-21-2018 , 07:23 PM

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

I'm pretty sure we have to bet turn with just Ax if we want to bluff at a reasonable frequency. We should bet the flop at a high frequency with range our advantage and that includes Ax.

Our bluffing range is like KcQc and JJ? I'm pretty sure we can cover ourselves by just betting sets and 2 pair. Betting evey Ax is almost certainly betting too much. I think this hand is better off x/c and hoping v stabs.

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01-21-2018 , 07:28 PM

#10

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

Its 5nl anyway, a9 isnt strong enough to go for value in 4bet pots.

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01-21-2018 , 08:21 PM

#11

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

We have range advantage so we can and should bet a lot.
Saying betting every Ax is too much when we have so few bluffs is contradictory. If we just bet 2pairs and sets + JJ and KcQc, villain should fold every hand he has except AK or better.
We have few bluffs?
Great, we can deny villain's low equity hands everytime and not worry about getting raised.

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01-21-2018 , 09:14 PM

#12

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

I give up. Feel free to bet here and only get called by better hands. V will thank you for building his pot and value owning yourself.

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01-21-2018 , 09:54 PM

#13

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Will do, after my exams (minus the part about villain being happy facing a bet 100% of the time with a significantly worse range)

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01-22-2018 , 12:55 AM

#14

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,103

4b too small oop 150 deep

x turn

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01-22-2018 , 03:57 AM

#15

B3ck

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brokenstars

4b too small oop 150 deep

x turn

+1 also prefer to use A4s,A5s instead.

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