Thinking about moving from cash to tournaments. Have had pretty decent success at cash. Lifetime I am up around 500 buy in's between 5nl/10nl and a bit of PLO thrown in (got a lot better at NL after I studied PLO). Unfortunately I have just grown very bored of cash (unless it's HU) and find it difficult to focus and have motivation to play. I think after playing so many hands with the same situations coming up it just seems pretty repetitive. I don't want to quit poker but I don't really see myself having the discipline/skill/desire to move up stakes in cash where I can make a very good living. So, question is, what do you guys think about moving over to tourneys instead? Is it going to be worth it and is there decent money to be made with a bit of study?

read this http://www.nsdpoker.com/2011/01/mtt-pros/

sngs and mtts are far easier and much less intellectually taxing, so there's that, but if you are doing this with a steady income in mind, seek staking unless both your life roll and poker roll can both support you a full year+ no problem

tournaments are a good way to make money playing poker as there are usually a ton of players who are just dead money and donating their buy-in to the prize pool. That being said there is a ton of variance and you need to always be shooting for the final table payouts as those winnings are what will sustain you long term. Reading your post though and the reason why you are transitioning out of cash makes me think that tournaments are not the way to go for you. With cash, you set your own schedule, you decide when you want to play and for how long. With tournaments you are at the mercy of the tournament schedule and are stuck playing until you bust or the tournament ends.

I know everyone is different but whenever I begin to feel like you do, I will usually just take a week or two off and try to not even think about poker and then I always feel invigorated when I do step back into it and usually play my best poker right after the break.

why not move up ?

As a student if I make upwards of 40 buy ins in a short amount of time it can be pretty helpful for real life things. Let's say I deposit $20 and spin it up to $300 in a couple of weeks that can have a significant impact on things I can afford as a student. If I move up and lose this money it's a bit annoying. So every-time I make a decent amount of money I find myself wanting to cash out for things in real life and then leave myself underolled to move up and then have to grind it out again.

Thanks for the advice, I have been taking long breaks lately and just whenever I come back I find myself just not really caring about playing well. Like always taking the high variance route and not really enjoying myself. It's annoying as I have put in a fair amount of hours into poker and to just give up entirely feels like a waste when I believe I have the potential to make at least some money. That's why I was thinking of trying a new variant.

personally i think at this day in time, playing poker for the sake of making money wont really get you any decent amount of money unless you run super hot in a large MTT.

i think you really need to enjoy playing the game and enjoy to study / solve it to become good enough to make some money.

may advice would be, maybe just cash out half your roll and keep building it up...

What about playing cash live? Can only speak of poker clubs in my city but plenty of 200nl players live play worst then 10nl players online. Sure its different game online and live but ppl make massive pre and post flopp mistakes.

As a student I prefer cash cause I can do 1-2 hour sessions in the evenings when I have free time 4-5 days a week. When I tried tourneys, I basically had to give up one weekend day to grind from 11am till I busted everything. Takes way to long and can only do it once or twice a week. SNGs are a way around this but no big scores and not as fun.

grinding tournaments is hell. It is far easier in terms of skill, but you will be married to a computer to put the hours in. If you want lower variance, guaranteed returns, you are going to be grinding tournaments with lower prizepools, and less money up top. IMO that is essentially like grinding cash, but with more frustration and pain involved. Instead of losing 2 flips consecutively and being down 2 stacks, in the middle of a grind that can mean ****ing you out of a day-saver etc.

above poster that recommended staking is not a bad idea, and playing live for some side cash if that option exists. If you are truly beating 5/10nl at a decent clip, surely you would be a big winner in 1/2 1/3 (again, if you have good casino options near you). These games are basically like ATM's for anyone with a pulse that can do simple math. Winning actual decent dollar amounts on a day / session might motivate you further, as well. I just grind online because I want to get better, but there are people who grind out a decent side income playing low stakes cash, and don't feel the need to shot upward, which I think can be great.

I think playing live could be good. I have played a few times live. I won a tourney once. Think the last time I played cash I ran a $200 bluff (with half my net worth) before I even had heard of the term '3 bet'. But I do remember enjoying it and not being able to sleep thinking about how that guy called me off with a low pair. It's deffo something I will try when I move to an area with a casino nearby. Thanks for the suggestion.

I know tournaments are high variance but to be honest that is part of the fun. I have played quite a few online and even when it goes badly it's always such a sweat running deep. It's a different feel. About a year ago I won a $5 hyper for around $850 and the next day won a $4 bubble rush for $400 and change. Considering this was probably more than I had ever made at cash after many many hours I do now think maybe it could be worth getting into (I cashed this money out for holidays and general stuff and then regrinded cash). I do remember the sweat of those deep runs and being waaaaay more focused than I could ever be 4 tabling zoom, it was deffo very intense. Obvs this was sunrunning but still.

I think I may try moving up in cash when my life roll allows and keep working on fundamentals but try adding in some low entrant tourneys and seeing how things go. I'm not a complete fish at tourneys but compared to cash I don't really know what I am doing so I think it will be fun to learn/study. Think ICM stuff is where people can get a good edge from what people say about it.

Cheers for all the helpful advice

lol do 3 months of full sunday grinds in the micros, and come back here and say that tournament variance is fun

sorry, I can't help myself

also, if you do play live tourneys, look at the structure and rake. It is sometimes better to play a larger buyin tourney with less rake % on the buyin than it is to play the smallest available at a cardroom, some of which are actually not beatable for the % of rake.

From my limited experience playing microstakes MTTs (I´m under the assumption you´d start from there, considering you´re more or less rolled for 5nl/10nl right?), it would be hard to keep the passion for much longer than maybe 2 months, due to the ridiculously low level of play compared to cash. Variance may take a toll on your mindset also.

I can´t really exchange the flexibility I have playing cash games, even though they sometimes get too repetitive/boring. Try setting challenging goals for you to move up while still playing cash, and I´m pretty sure you will get your motivation back. And higher stakes would obviously bring new spots to your game.

My 2 cents.

Cheers

Cheers,

I forgot to add that I have only been playing zoom recently after basically only playing ante cash games. Now that I think about it there is a lot more action in ante tables and a lot more postflop action, lots of deepstacked multiway pots too. I think it's more suited to my playstyle and just generally is a bit more dynamic. Think I will look to move up stakes and return to ante cash as one change I can make.

I enjoy MTTs for the fact that it's a break from the monotonous grind of cash games. MTTs can give you very unique situations and are unique in themselves since your stack is ever changing whether it be by going +/- in chips or the blinds going up. In cash you're very often 125 bbs deep or less with people.

If Bovada had better software and timebanks (ie: less stalling), I'd play lots of MTTs.

The issue here is that if he finds similar situations to be boring he is going to absolutely HATE playing SNG's and MTT's for the reasons he states here. If he doesn't like this, he is a near-lock to not like those. Poker may not be for him.

But, they aren't unique at all. They are more the same than any other form of poker. Play a couple thousand and you will see.

I have decided to take a long break. The micros will always be there and if I am being honest with myself I don't see me creating a career for myself with poker. I do think I am pretty good at my stakes but I don't think I will have the skill to make good money at higher stakes. This is fine as it was always a hobby anyway.

I think the monotony of zoom has gotten to me. Slinking into autopilot far too often and not respecting the stakes (also some long-term winner's tilt thrown in) I have lost my desire to win/play well.

I will take some time off, still enjoy poker content online and try and stay up to date on some things. When I return I will move up and return to ante/HU where I for sure have the most fun.

I will actually study some GTO stuff as I know this will be somewhat important in moving up (even if just understanding how opponents are playing). Any ideas on where to start without breaking the bank?

See you in three days.

Ryan Fees Book to get back to the basics.

The Grinders Manual to improve and play fundamentally. As he says, and I agree, you can beat a reg infested small site up to 100nl with that book. I can tell you that from the bit I have read if you smartly apply his brushes at advanced thinking processes you'll learn how to think. At that point, small adjustments will make a winning 200nl player.

Study the game 30-50% of your poker time. HH reviews, software, videos, training sites, coaching. When you're playing great study 20% of the time. When you're on your B game or less study 50% of the time.

Play some MTTs or SNGs, but keep them very low BI in relation to your BR. When I was playing 100k a month this was a huge way for me to play (as I enjoyed) but also not see the same horizon at all times. I made friends with the best mid-stakes 6m and 45m player on Stars back then and learned a ton. I had a 98% ROI at small stakes MTT's over 1000 games and was a big winner in 18-180 mans. Winning a $5r or a $20 Fo at times makes poker enjoyable.

Stop playing Zoom. GTO is great, but applying exploitative lines to your game based on table dynamics, image, and reads is far more rewarding. Fast-Fold games make things repetitive and remove the lure of poker.

Unless you are (be honest with yourself) playing your A game, play less and shorter sessions. If you have the option, play a softer site that might be less attractive due to fewer tables etc. Focus on a concept from your HH reviews in these sessions.

Some people get their motivation back when they hit a wall. I wouldn´t be putting 10% of my current effort if 10nl was a walk in the park the first time (and 2nd, 3rd etc lol) I took a shot there. So, you said you don´t have the skill/discipline or desire to move up, but if you try doing it, and find a stake very challenging, maybe 25nl, 50nl or higher idk, then who knows, you might find yourself being really motivated again (or obsessed, like I am right now )