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WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River
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05-19-2017 , 09:47 PM
#1
Drakken
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 245
    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $2.75 (137.5 bb)
    Hero (BTN): $2.30 (115 bb)
    SB: $1.78 (89 bb)
    BB: $2 (100 bb)
    UTG: $1.35 (67.5 bb)
    MP: $1.39 (69.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q K
    UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.06

    Flop: ($0.19) Q A A (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero checks

    Turn: ($0.19) 9 (2 players)
    UTG bets $0.02, Hero raises to $0.13, UTG raises to $0.24, Hero calls $0.11

    River: ($0.67) 9 (2 players)
    UTG bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

    Spoiler:
    Results: $0.87 pot ($0.03 rake)
    Final Board: Q A A 9 9
    Hero mucked Q K and lost (-$0.42 net)
    UTG showed 6 A and won $0.84 ($0.42 net)


    That Turn x/r screamed Villain had a possible slowplayed Ace, but it was so confusing and loose 2NL players love to minraise their flush draws to "scare" villains, I was baffled by this play.

    I got offered such a price on the River, I paid to see here.

    Should I have folded this Turn after the check-raise?

    Villain is VPIP 36, PFR 1, A.G 4.3, over 74 hands.
    WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River Quote
    05-19-2017 , 09:50 PM
    #2
    Drakken
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    journeyman
    Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 245
    Here is another confusing play that I encounter from time to time. Makes it so hard to put Villains into a reasonable range. Like, WTF???


      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $1.63 (81.5 bb)
      SB: $4.17 (208.5 bb)
      Hero (BB): $3.08 (154 bb)
      MP: $2.39 (119.5 bb)
      CO: $1.50 (75 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 8
      MP folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB folds, Hero checks

      Flop: ($0.07) 4 A 6 (3 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

      Turn: ($0.07) 5 (3 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

      River: ($0.07) 7 (3 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.07, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.32, CO raises to $0.64, Hero calls $0.32

      Spoiler:
      Results: $1.35 pot ($0.05 rake)
      Final Board: 4 A 6 5 7
      BTN mucked and lost (-$0.02 net)
      Hero showed 2 8 and won $1.30 ($0.64 net)
      CO showed 4 4 and lost (-$0.66 net)
      WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River Quote
      05-19-2017 , 11:45 PM
      #3
      whitemares
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      Pooh-Bah
      Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762
      It's pretty hard to range fish with much accuracy when you don't have a lot of experience playing against them. I wouldn't waste too much mental energy trying to do so, just keep in mind that their ranges can contain many more possible combinations of hands in a lot of situations.

      First hand, just call the turn bet. Very little point in raising a random fish. As played, fold to the 3bet. Second hand is a clear shove over the river 3bet.
      WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River Quote
      05-20-2017 , 02:50 AM
      #4
      Drakken
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      journeyman
      Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 245
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by whitemares
      It's pretty hard to range fish with much accuracy when you don't have a lot of experience playing against them. I wouldn't waste too much mental energy trying to do so, just keep in mind that their ranges can contain many more possible combinations of hands in a lot of situations.

      First hand, just call the turn bet. Very little point in raising a random fish. As played, fold to the 3bet. Second hand is a clear shove over the river 3bet.
      First hand, because of the check on the Flop I had a read I was way-ahead, and I did not want to let him see the River for cheap, plus building the pot. His re-raise threw my whole plan up-side down.

      Second hand, the reason why I called rather than shove is only because it entered my mind he could be having 98 or a random 8, so I wanted to control the pot and the rake being paid if we split.
      WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River Quote
      05-20-2017 , 05:54 AM
      #5
      whitemares
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      Pooh-Bah
      Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Drakken
      First hand, because of the check on the Flop I had a read I was way-ahead, and I did not want to let him see the River for cheap, plus building the pot. His re-raise threw my whole plan up-side down.
      What was your read that you were way ahead? Villain has literally every Ax combo. At best you're flipping with villain's range, and you're doing terribly vs villain's continuing range when you raise. You're either way ahead or way behind. Even with some possible draws out there (some of which you block), it's generally better to keep the pot small in such situations.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Drakken
      Second hand, the reason why I called rather than shove is only because it entered my mind he could be having 98 or a random 8, so I wanted to control the pot and the rake being paid if we split.
      That would be applicable if villain were a reg. Villain's a fish though, so easy value shove.
      WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River Quote
      05-20-2017 , 06:20 AM
      #6
      Shamway99
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      veteran
      Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3,348
      Both hands are only examples how recreation players can destroy their made hands postflop.
      The first hand you could fold to bigger river bet but as played it is OK.
      The second hand nice gift from V, only bet river yourself.
      WTF??? Confusing lines on the Turn and River Quote
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