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Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF

11-20-2018 , 06:45 PM
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BB ($16.81) [VPIP: 23.1% | PFR: 18.3% | AGG: 33.1% | 3-Bet: 8% | Hands: 990]
UTG ($18.20) [VPIP: 40% | PFR: 30% | AGG: 26.8% | 3-Bet: 10.3% | Hands: 105]
HJ ($8.29) [VPIP: 30% | PFR: 10% | AGG: 21.3% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 93]
CO ($12.84) [VPIP: 27.9% | PFR: 15.3% | AGG: 17.6% | 3-Bet: 10.7% | Hands: 306]
BTN ($29.86) [VPIP: 23.3% | PFR: 15.9% | AGG: 36.3% | 3-Bet: 5.8% | Hands: 2246]
HERO ($14.78) [VPIP: 27.9% | PFR: 23.1% | AGG: 33.2% | 3-Bet: 11% | Hands: 10882]

Dealt to Hero: 6 4

UTG Folds, HJ Calls $0.10, CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Calls $0.05, BB Raises To $0.50, HJ Calls $0.40, HERO Calls $0.40

Hero SPR on Flop: [5.19 effective]
Flop ($1.50): 7 4 5
HERO Checks, BB Bets $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 15.11), HJ Folds, HERO ?
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 06:53 PM
I think your preflop call is fine. I favor a check raise as a bluff here. You have significant equity when called and you may well take it down here. If called if continue firing on club 3, 4, or 8. Obviously if you get raised on a club you have to concede. But take a shot.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose
I think your preflop call is fine. I favor a check raise as a bluff here. You have significant equity when called and you may well take it down here. If called if continue firing on club 3, 4, or 8. Obviously if you get raised on a club you have to concede. But take a shot.
And if I XR and he shoves I call it off?
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 08:25 PM
I think I fold pre both times. 65s can play though.
I haven't a clue what's best on the flop. Villain's iso-raise and big bet looks pretty damn strong.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
I think I fold pre both times. 65s can play though.
I haven't a clue what's best on the flop. Villain's iso-raise and big bet looks pretty damn strong.
We can just assume it’s 65s for arguments sake since it’s the same hand OTF.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 09:17 PM
65 or 64, both are fine, but the EV of limping those is so small that I prefer just folding. It could be printing though, but it gets you into very tilting spots where nobody has a clue in what to do, so I prefer to limp behind with Kxs, Axs and small pairs because they're easy stackoffs when you hit, you cooler fish a lot too when that happens.

Small SCs do poorly in mw pots because you're usually the one getting coolered when both hit, so I don't see many +EV scenarios outside of when both villains check and you stab with a draw and win the pot. When they bet into you it's a tough spot because you don't know if you have the fold equity to justify semibluffing.

Btw, call, that guy isn"t going anywhere with his hand haha
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidesh123
65 or 64, both are fine, but the EV of limping those is so small that I prefer just folding. It could be printing though, but it gets you into very tilting spots where nobody has a clue in what to do, so I prefer to limp behind with Kxs, Axs and small pairs because they're easy stackoffs when you hit, you cooler fish a lot too when that happens.

Small SCs do poorly in mw pots because you're usually the one getting coolered when both hit, so I don't see many +EV scenarios outside of when both villains check and you stab with a draw and win the pot. When they bet into you it's a tough spot because you don't know if you have the fold equity to justify semibluffing.

Btw, call, that guy isn"t going anywhere with his hand haha
What’s your range here for Villain? I’m flipping vs most overpairs
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
What’s your range here for Villain? I’m flipping vs most overpairs
Just because you will flip with overpairs it doesn't mean it's an auto stackoff, because calling could be more profitable than stacking off. By stacking off with him here you also negate your skill edge over villain, you have a pretty good idea of what his holdings are and won't make a mistake vs him, but he can make mistakes vs you.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
And if I XR and he shoves I call it off?
No. Not at all. But I doubt he's shoving. Your range crushes his in this flop. I thinking stacking off here is bad. Take a shot at winning the flop and readers the turn.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-20-2018 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose
No. Not at all. But I doubt he's shoving. Your range crushes his in this flop. I thinking stacking off here is bad. Take a shot at winning the flop and readers the turn.
Okay i'll take your advice: So much for doubting a shove.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BB ($16.81) [VPIP: 24.1% | PFR: 18.7% | AGG: 34.6% | 3-Bet: 7.7% | Hands: 1210]
UTG ($18.20) [VPIP: 39.6% | PFR: 29.7% | AGG: 26.8% | 3-Bet: 10.3% | Hands: 106]
HJ ($8.29) [VPIP: 30.3% | PFR: 10.1% | AGG: 21.9% | 3-Bet: 2.3% | Hands: 123]
CO ($12.84) [VPIP: 27.7% | PFR: 15.2% | AGG: 17.6% | 3-Bet: 10.7% | Hands: 308]
BTN ($29.86) [VPIP: 23.2% | PFR: 16% | AGG: 36% | 3-Bet: 5.7% | Hands: 2401]
HERO ($14.78) [VPIP: 27.9% | PFR: 23.1% | AGG: 33.5% | 3-Bet: 11.1% | Hands: 11101]

Dealt to Hero: 6 4

UTG Folds, HJ Calls $0.10, CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Calls $0.05, BB Raises To $0.50, HJ Calls $0.40, HERO Calls $0.40

Hero SPR on Flop: [5.19 effective]
Flop ($1.50): 7 4 5
HERO Checks, BB Bets $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 15.11), HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $3.11 (Rem. Stack: 11.17), BB Raises To $16.31 (allin), HERO ?
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 04:09 AM
I wouldnt raise vs. that humongo sizing
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 05:04 AM
For some reason I thought HJ raised and I was like wtf how is everybody ok with calling pre.
Anyway BB looks like a reg, and his nearly pot bet into the pot is kinda strong, meh I don't know I'd just call but it's a bad spot anyway.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
For some reason I thought HJ raised and I was like wtf how is everybody ok with calling pre.
dw same happened to me
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 05:39 AM
I just fold pre after bb iso's and just call flop when he bets that big
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 07:37 AM
I'd also fold pre to the iso.

Post flop sucks cause yes, we're flipping vs his range, however, we have little to no implied odds because 4 card straights are so flipping obvious. It's not worth it to draw, but, we almost have to call otf now because of our equity share.

AP, call now, I suppose.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr
I'd also fold pre to the iso.

Post flop sucks cause yes, we're flipping vs his range, however, we have little to no implied odds because 4 card straights are so flipping obvious. It's not worth it to draw, but, we almost have to call otf now because of our equity share.

AP, call now, I suppose.
We have 2 very strong outs that villain will stackoff easily, which is any 4x. We will lose action if we hit a 6,7 or 3(11 outs), but we will get a free card on 6 cards.

So 4% of the time ott we will win villain's stack making him draw close to dead, 22% of the time we will make the best hand and probably squeeze a small bet otr for value and 12% of the time we will realize our equity for free(flush card) giving us potential to hit more 2 good outs otr for a big sized valuebet and 11 outs of making the best hand again

Calling is superior to raising because most weaktight guys/fish will only show up with overpairs otf for that sizing betting into 2 people. And they have 0 clue on what we have. That's why I dislike raising flop vs that kind of player
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 08:37 AM
completing pre is good imo but I'm not sure about calling the raise

call flop against this sizing even though it's a fine hand to raise in theory
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidesh123
We have 2 very strong outs that villain will stackoff easily, which is any 4x. We will lose action if we hit a 6,7 or 3(11 outs), but we will get a free card on 6 cards.

So 4% of the time ott we will win villain's stack making him draw close to dead, 22% of the time we will make the best hand and probably squeeze a small bet otr for value and 12% of the time we will realize our equity for free(flush card) giving us potential to hit more 2 good outs otr for a big sized valuebet and 11 outs of making the best hand again

Calling is superior to raising because most weaktight guys/fish will only show up with overpairs otf for that sizing betting into 2 people. And they have 0 clue on what we have. That's why I dislike raising flop vs that kind of player
Right, almost any card but a 4 is going to slow V down unless he somehow has 77/55 or he improves ott. Which makes getting in this spot not worth it against a reg in an iso'd, mw, SRP. The guy who is likely more mistake prone folded otf.

I would argue regs don't play overpairs like this often on this flop texture as it favors SB; they are aware.

Speaking of which, the V type you described and the BB don't really seem to coincide. 23/19/8 doesn't seem like weak tight. That, in turn, leads me to believe some of the outs that we think might slow V down may also improve parts of his range, i.e. big clubs.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
So much for doubting a shove.
Just because I doubt something doesn't make it impossible.

Seems an over pair is likely and you have decent equity. I originally thought fold, but I'm starting to think it could be a close decision.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote
11-21-2018 , 11:56 AM
Completing pre is fine, calling the raise is close.

Having got to the flop, I flat call here. As played, you need to call the shove. Villain checks pre with 4s, 5s and 7s and combos that make 2 pair on that flop, so doesn't show up with sets or 2 pair here. He has high clubs or an overpair, meaning (without working out exact maths) we have an easy call as played. A5cc has you crushed (and villain could raise pre with that) but that's the only hand you're not flipping against.
Thoughts on Preflop - And what to do OTF Quote

      
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