Thought Experiment - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Let's say we are playing a 6max table at 200BB Effective stacks.

It folds to us in the Cutoff and we open 2.5BB, BTN folds and SB 3bets to 11BB, BB folds and we call.

The pot is now 23BB/189BB Effective/8.2 SPR.

The flop comes A

For all intents and purposes SB should be c-betting range on this board for a very small sizing. But let's say he doesn't know this.

And instead he checks more often than he should. Now how do we go about exploiting this Small Blind that over checks on the flop?

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05-30-2020 , 12:22 AM

Crab Cakes

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 596

So someone who doesn’t know he should range bet would be checking a lot of hands that can’t stand a lot of heat. My inclination would be going for more multiple street bluffs would best combat this. Some players will just check all underpairs on this board and will fold all of them by the river.

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05-30-2020 , 12:23 AM

Crab Cakes

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 596

If he’s balanced in his checking range I would say there is no exploit. Simply you gain ev by being able to check back/bluff with some hands that you would normally fold to a small Cbet. So not an exploit, just good news you gain more value from your range.

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05-30-2020 , 12:28 AM

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Crab Cakes

What hands should we bluff?

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05-30-2020 , 12:35 AM

Crab Cakes

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 596

It’s hard cause a lot of our bluffs (if we believe what I said was true and want to overbluff) have very little equity. I would use hands that unblock TT-KK. So I’d go 45s-9Ts can all be blasted. 22-66. All diamonds. Any pair that’s not an A.

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05-30-2020 , 12:39 AM

Crab Cakes

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 596

Also is this board a range bet from SB? I would think no given we have more sets and 2p.

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05-30-2020 , 12:45 AM

Zuko

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Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,356

we need to figure out if he is checking strongish hands and still betting all air or if he is checking air.

we check back and overrealize equity with hands that should have folded vs a bet. we may "overfold" vs a bet (if villain checks air) or "overcall" was a bet if villain checks strong. if this is a general theme that villain checks too often on many flops we can call wide preflop because again we get to overrealize equity

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05-30-2020 , 12:54 AM

Ceres

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Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,048

Agree with Crab Cakes, if he's over-checking then we exploit him by over-stabbing.

In that scenario I guess we want to be bluffing diamonds, PP we can double barrel on safe turns, 78s and maybe the bottom of our range like 22-44.

If it goes check/check then safe turn I would consider extending bluffs with a wider range because nitty players will just overfold.

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05-30-2020 , 12:54 AM

.isolated

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

i'd range bet ip because people who check fold too much.

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05-30-2020 , 01:03 AM

#10

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuko

Lets say we don't know if he is checking strong or weak. All we know is he checks way too much on this board. Is this enough information to be able to exploit him?

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05-30-2020 , 01:09 AM

#11

Ceres

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Yes. If he's over-checking we really mean he's missing his range bet.

If he's missing his range bet he's losing value with all his average hands and we punish that range by betting and forcing him to overfold his diluted weak range.

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05-30-2020 , 01:15 AM

#12

Ceres

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuko

we need to figure out if he is checking strongish hands and still betting all air or if he is checking air.

No offence, but what does this sentence mean?

Last edited by Ceres; 05-30-2020 at 01:21 AM.

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05-30-2020 , 01:21 AM

#13

its_snowing

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Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 37

You are exploiting him by default, hes losing ev to IP automatically by checking too much.

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05-30-2020 , 01:24 AM

#14

Zuko

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Lets say we don't know if he is checking strong or weak. All we know is he checks way too much on this board. Is this enough information to be able to exploit him?

well if we dont know if he is checking AT or JTcc or QQ i dont really know how you would exploit him. unless you make a general assumption based on population tendencies somehow. the only thing i can think of is like i said before. if he genreally does not cbet enough postflop across all boards we get to defend wider preflop. we could maybe assume that because he might 2nd barrel too often because he does not cbet enough and therefore start folding fringe hands on the flop that pretty much always would have to fold vs a 2nd barrel.

besides from that villain is probably only exploiting himself by missing out on value/ bluff opportunity

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05-30-2020 , 01:24 AM

#15

newguyhere

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It would help to know how often he 3bets.

If he's only 3betting 8%, then his range will probably contain enough hands that could check/call. In which case, we'll want to bluff with hands that have good equity or that we can barrel.

Now if he's 3betting like 15%+ then I think we can just bet our entire range when he checks.

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05-30-2020 , 01:28 AM

#16

Zuko

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Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,356

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

No offence, but what does this sentence mean?

well you assume he is checking weak hands. but maybe he is betting all his bluffs on the flop and only checking top pair hands with medium or weak kicker and is willing to call you down. in that case bluffing would not be the best way to go.

but maybe he is betting anything that has sometype of equity and only checking total air that is willing to fold vs a bet.

Or he is betting all his Top pair hands and his bluffs but checking Hands like KK-88 and you might be able to make him fold by the river.

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05-30-2020 , 01:29 AM

#17

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by its_snowing

You are exploiting him by default, hes losing ev to IP automatically by checking too much.

I guess I should be more clear - maximally exploit.

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05-30-2020 , 01:37 AM

#18

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuko

Let's put it this way - if you didn't know if Villain was checking strong or weak BUT you know for a fact he is checking at too high a frequency on the flop.

Would you bet more or less as IP? Small or large sizing?

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05-30-2020 , 01:43 AM

#19

Ceres

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuko

Well, indeed. Villain *could* be up to both. If we knew we could formulate either way. But given we don't know, and this is a theoretical decision against someone we hypothetically believe is over-checking their entire range, then I think we're swayed towards assuming his range is diluted with weaker hands. Hence we crank up our bluffs.

If someone isn't range-betting they are losing EV by exposing themselves to a wider betting range.

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05-30-2020 , 02:03 AM

#20

Zuko

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Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,356

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

If all i know is that villain is checking more often than he should my response would probably be to bet LESS IP.

tho i dont believe we can get that read without seeing hands go to showdown.

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05-30-2020 , 02:10 AM

#21

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

Well, indeed. Villain *could* be up to both. If we knew we could formulate either way. But given we don't know, and this is a theoretical decision against someone we hypothetically believe is over-checking their entire range, then I think we're swayed towards assuming his range is diluted with weaker hands. Hence we crank up our bluffs.

If someone isn't range-betting they are losing EV by exposing themselves to a wider betting range.

That's not the reason SB is losing EV though. Remember as CO we don't know what SB's checks mean, we just know he is doing it too much.

We can still exploit him even if all we know is his checking frequency.

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05-30-2020 , 02:11 AM

#22

jeccross

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Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,807

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

I guess I should be more clear - maximally exploit.

His post was right, we don't have enough information to do more than this. Lets say he's range checking not range betting for simplicity. We dont know any more about his range than we do when he range bets. We just know he's passed up an opportunity to bet a street where he has strong range advantage over us on this board.

I can't see how we exploit this further, but we benefit from playing smaller pots on average in a spot where we have range disadvantage - we effectively defended our raise cheaper.

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05-30-2020 , 02:18 AM

#23

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jeccross

His post was right, we don't have enough information to do more than this. Lets say he's range checking not range betting for simplicity. We dont know any more about his range than we do when he range bets. We just know he's passed up an opportunity to bet a street where he has strong range advantage over us on this board.

I can't see how we exploit this further, but we benefit from playing smaller pots on average in a spot where we have range disadvantage - we effectively defended our raise cheaper.

No we have enough information. We can deduce lots of things without knowing Villain's exact frequencies, we just need to know he is checking way too much.

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05-30-2020 , 02:33 AM

#24

jeccross

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Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,807

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

No we have enough information. We can deduce lots of things without knowing Villain's exact frequencies, we just need to know he is checking way too much.

Like what?

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05-30-2020 , 03:01 AM

#25

its_snowing

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

No we have enough information. We can deduce lots of things without knowing Villain's exact frequencies, we just need to know he is checking way too much.

If you have HH that sways his range to one or the other then yes. What if villain is only betting with some bluff candidates and checking every one of his good hands and you did not know that. He would still be over checking, but show up with a massively strong range.

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