A8o BBvsBTN vs river shove - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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A8o BBvsBTN vs river shove

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04-09-2023 , 06:53 AM

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Hero is BB with A♣️8♦️ (100BB)
Villan is BTN (100BB)

All folds, BTN open 2.5BB, SB folds, Hero call.
(Pot 5.5BB)

Flop: 8♥️T♣️6♣️
Hero check, BTN bet 1.5BB, Hero Call
(Pot 8.5BB)

Turn: A♦️
Hero check, BTN bet 6.5BB, Hero raise 20BB, BTN call
(Pot 48.5BB)

River: 5♠️
Hero bet 16.5BB, BTN raise all in

Villan looks weak reg, I am lost on my river sizing, I suppose we need to split here

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04-09-2023 , 04:53 PM

Ceres

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Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,026

River is a deceptive brick, and we beat some value, so leaning towards BC. Sizing? 50-66% i'd have though to get value from AK, AQ, AJ

Not 100% sure we should be Xraising turn though. Wonder if this is better type of combo to put in XC-XC-XR

EDIT: nah wrong, solver XRs turn looking to OB jam most brick rivers like this

Last edited by Ceres; 04-09-2023 at 05:19 PM.

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04-09-2023 , 05:19 PM

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

In game I thought that I could get value from his draw and he could use the A on the turn to kick off my 6x, 8x, Tx.

I think check raising turn is too thin, I made a mistake. I see check raise river also too thin but I could be wrong.

Probably x/c x/c x/c can be the right play, when the FD miss on the river he can blast off with hand like J♦️9♦️, Q♥️9♥️

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04-09-2023 , 05:22 PM

Ceres

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Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,026

No I think you were right on the turn, XR for value. (soz, just edited my comment same time) We're not really looking to block on the river though

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04-09-2023 , 05:24 PM

thr33bet

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,461

I think we need to split on river, it doesn't look like a river we can really block on at all. Not sure about OB jamming in practice - how wide is the solver defending in the sim? Tx and Ax one pairs both have to mix defends in, I assume?

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04-09-2023 , 05:28 PM

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

EDIT: nah wrong, solver XRs turn looking to OB jam most brick rivers like this

Population don't barrell the turn at the frequency of the solver, I was on board with my check rasie in game but I am playing against a range that is probably stronger compared with the solver

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04-09-2023 , 05:32 PM

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by thr33bet

Yes, this is the other mistake that I made. In game I went for the exploitative 1/3 to get paid by AK type hand because the opposition was not great

The problem was that I didn't know what to do in theory in this spot, for me it's ok to deviate from theory but I prefer to know what to do in theory

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04-09-2023 , 05:55 PM

Ceres

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Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by thr33bet

All Ax, Tx with GSs

66% of range. I don't think it'd be too far off IRL??. Plenty of draws out there that might fancy this.

OTR sim is doing some marginal splitting with worse equity stuff like worse 2p but much prefers gii with value and forcing BU to call with some AK and worse 2p. We do have a monster nut adv so mainly OB seems logical and we can squeeze in some missed draws. Are you worried about not getting called enough? Solve does mix some weaker Ax calls as BU but if I node lock them out you'd only think it jams harder :)))

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04-09-2023 , 06:00 PM

Ceres

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Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by L94E

Population don't barrell the turn at the frequency of the solver, I was on board with my check rasie in game but I am playing against a range that is probably stronger compared with the solver

Solve's betting turn ~75%. Depends on your play pool or V's capability. As I said though, presumably the BC would be closer to gto

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04-09-2023 , 06:07 PM

#10

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Ok perfect, so basically on the river we go big. I ve posted other 2 interesting spot on the river with A5 and 55, take a look!

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04-09-2023 , 06:18 PM

#11

thr33bet

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

))

Really? I just punched it in and have this:

Can't tell if it's going to be under- or over-defended in practice. Can't see A4cc always calling, but A8s and some of the non Ax 2p might decide to defend always (esp with a club).

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04-09-2023 , 06:53 PM

#12

Ceres

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Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,026

First bit was regarding BU turn calling range, sorry i think I misread you, second bit river

Interesting to compare solves though.

Pio calling ~4% more at ~ 34%. Difference seems to revolve around it valuing Ax bluffcatchers more, and A7s rather than A7o for some unknown reason. Not entirely sure what gtow is doing calling T6 and 86 but pure folding A5s?

Turn XR size is slightly off in gtow sim fwiw, though that could work the other way and give BU more calls vs a looser range. Actually that river calling range looks fairly realistic imo

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04-09-2023 , 11:25 PM

#13

nonsimplesimon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 10,007

Maybe this is nitty but I think I am just calling turn. I feel it's a wawb when he reraises us. I don't think AK AQ KK QQ is going bonkers. So that leaves str8 and set combos on this no fd board. I don't think if just calling I'm folding the river. I think I might fold AK .... I'd have to plug it in and see.

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