Lol. And neither can a solver. And it definitely can't do it in game.

Given you don't seem to want to try to offer a reason for why the solver likes an overbet in some spots, how do you work out those spots in game? Or do you just solve every flop and memorise it?

i wonder what you think a solver is doing because that is basically all a solver is doing.

saying a solver cant calculate the highest EV betsize / strategy is really weird, especially in 2020.

without being offensive i think you really should maybe look into that solver stuff and ... yeah . - i dont know what this has to do with ingame. you use a solver to study and understand concepts. and then you apply what you know ingame in a different (but actually similar) situation.

I think you should look into what a solver is doing a bit more, in particular the difference between equilibrium strategies and exploitative ones. Shock/horror, at the micros people really aren't balanced, and your equilibrium strategy (which is only equilibrium if the assumptions you put in are right as well) isn't the most +EV one. I get you probably spent half your bankroll on one though, so want to discuss it at every opportunity.

I agree on the second point, it's useful for understanding - but all you are doing is saying that the reasons people suggest for why a solver overbets aren't the right ones. If you're not going to suggest other ones, then you aren't adding much to the conversation to help people understand concepts. You also can't identify what a "similar" situation is without understanding what the similarity is.

troll or no troll ?! that is the question

actually 75$ was 1/4 of my bankroll.

I'll take that to mean you don't have a response. How much did the solver increase your winrate?

Increased from -14bb /100 to -6.7bb/100

troll or no troll ?! that is the question.

If serious though, there's a hole somewhere else I would say.

My opinion on solvers is that I wouldn't say they're likely to be time and money well spent relative to other forms of study until you get to say 50NL - it seems to me like they are very time intensive for the output as well as being expensive. Feels like there are quicker and cheaper "wins" when looking for ways to improve if you aren't beating micros (that's not to say they don't involve solvers, but watching training site videos of someone using one for example will be quicker and cheaper).

you bring out an interesting observation - why do it yourself when others have done it for you

there are already guys posting pio/gto solves over 180 flops and going over stuff in detail incl why solver takes a particular action

I figure the answer is because you can run actual hands/spots you played, tailor the assumptions etc etc.

If I get to the stage where I feel that's the next step that will make the biggest improvement to my game, then I'll get a solver. My guess is that won't be before I reach 50NL - at the momen I think other study methods will be way more efficient from both a time and money POV.

fair enough

no. it is obviously not true. i would never talk about my winrate here. i dont have to proe anything. but let´s assume it were to be true. it does not tell you anything. you still would not know what stakes i play or what volume i play. so you could not possibly imagine how much i could have saved me. it is just a random number and with that information you form a random opinion and claim there are cheaper ways to improve. that does not seem like an educated information. to your opinion i really dont care because you made it very obvious with your statements that you dont even know what a solver is doing and how it really works so your opinion about something you dont even know is kind of useless. And also i am not going to explain why your opinions on solvers are wrong. it is not my job to educate you.

After OP got his thread hijacked i hope he still got some usefull information out of it.

Honestly have no idea if this is a good overbet spot, but it worked out


Ignition - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $9.56
Hero (BB): $11.56
UTG: $8.39
CO: $10.14
BTN: $10.02

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has A Q

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) UTG has 8 A

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) BTN has 5 K

UTG calls $0.10, fold, BTN calls $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.45, UTG calls $0.35, BTN calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.40, 3 players) 2 Q A
Hero bets $1.80, UTG raises to $3.60, BTN raises to $9.57 and is all-in, Hero raises to $11.11 and is all-in, UTG calls $4.34 and is all-in

Turn: ($28.48, 3 players) 2

River: ($28.48, 3 players) 9

UTG shows 8 A (Two Pair, Aces and Twos)

Main Pot [$25.22]: (Pre 19%, Flop 1%, Turn 2%)

BTN shows 5 K (One Pair, Twos)

Main Pot [$25.22]: (Pre 37%, Flop 34%, Turn 17%)
Side Pot#1 [$3.26]: (Pre 42%, Flop 34%, Turn 17%)

Hero wins $3.10
Hero wins $23.96

I didn't ask you to prove yourself, just asked how much using a solver improved your winrate. Its not particularly useful information, i agree.

Yes, its clear from this which of us is more educated on how solvers work, so I totally agree there is no need for you to waste our time trying to educate us.

I’m glad you two resolved that. I was about to go warm up some pop corn.

newguyhere: I think you should go bigger pre OOP. No idea about the flop overbet 3way, I would not do it probably (would you ever bluff here with this sizing against these guys?). But obviously this is a very exploitative spot.

I don't know what is the "right" strategy according to solvers or advanced players I'll tell you what I consider see if it makes sense

I overbet when villains range is capped, I have the nut advantage, turn card is a brick, as he is capped although turn doesn't improve our hand it doesn't make their holding stronger, and is a texture where I am gonna have a lot of bluffs (draws etc to mix). Im very polarised with nut type hands and bluffs. I'm mostly looking to overbet rivers too in this sequence

I personally dont have an overbet sizing in this spot, would have gone pot pot pot

[x] good example of bad misapplication
[x] got lucky - others caught a piece of that board
[x] thank god it wasn't pokerstars