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Standard or misplayed? Standard or misplayed?

05-26-2019 , 03:15 AM
Hey guys, have a few hands I would appreciate some feedback on, think on the surface they look somewhat standard but when really thinking about them not so sure. Could just be me being results orientated of course..
Cheers

Hand 1 -

Strange hand, actually think shoving here is not that great. Think it doesn't make much sense given the turn action. When he donk pots turn/calls a raise his range is going to consist of a tonne of 5x which on the river is either now going to be a straight flush or is folding on the four flush. When I jammed I immediately didn't like it. Super results orientated but don't really see him calling down with anything worse as a decent amount of the time he gets in a fair amount of his flushes on turn and will be folding a lot of flushes on the river.

No Limit Hold'em $0.02/$0.05
PokerStars
6 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG ($7.89)
MP - MP ($10.84)
CO - CO ($8.38)
BTN - BTN ($7.49)
SB - SB ($5.02)
BB - Hero ($9.96)

Preflop: ($0.07, 6 players) Hero is BB with A 3
4 folds, SB raises to $0.15, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: 6 3 7 ($0.30, 2 players)
SB bets $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, SB calls $0.15

Turn: 4 ($0.70, 2 players)
SB bets $0.67, Hero raises to $1.34, SB calls $0.67

River: 8 ($3.38, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.05, SB calls $3.33 (all-in), Uncalled bet of $0.72 returned to Hero

Total Pot: $10.04
Hero shows A 3 (a flush, Ace high)
SB shows 5 5 (a straight flush, Four to Eight)

SB wins $9.62


Hand 2- Easy fold river?? Called because A river makes AK less likely combo wise so mainly losing to JJ/KJ but turn action probably makes this a fold still.

No Limit Hold'em $0.02/$0.05
PokerStars
6 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG ($5.13)
MP - MP ($3.59)
CO - CO ($5.27)
BTN - Hero ($6.05)
SB - SB ($7.19)
BB - BB ($4.07)

Preflop: ($0.07, 6 players) Hero is BTN with Q K
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.47, Hero calls $0.32

Flop: K K J ($0.96, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.30, BB calls $0.30

Turn: 3 ($1.56, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB raises to $1.00, Hero calls $0.50

River: A ($3.56, 2 players)
BB bets $2.30 (all-in), Hero calls $2.30

Total Pot: $8.16
BB shows J J (a full house, Jacks full of Kings)
Hero shows Q K (three of a kind, Kings)

BB wins $7.82

Hand 3 - Feel like I butchered the sizing pre. Should make it like 5.5/6. Then can just bet 1/4 or 1/3 flop. As played we can never fold flop right? Just feels like he has exactly what he has and our hand is super face up so when he shoves he's basically saying 'I know you have AA but it doesn't matter'. Given the SPR think it's pretty standard, guess he can have some KK and occasional nut flush draws but feels like 99% of the time he just has QQ.

No Limit Hold'em $0.02/$0.05
PokerStars
6 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG ($11.55)
MP - MP ($8.65)
CO - CO ($6.51)
BTN - BTN ($6.84)
SB - SB ($6.37)
BB - Hero ($15.83)

Preflop: ($0.07, 6 players) Hero is BB with A A
UTG raises to $0.12, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.45, UTG raises to $1.15, Hero raises to $4.00, UTG calls $2.85

Flop: Q 7 8 ($8.02, 2 players)
Hero bets $3.00, UTG raises to $7.55 (all-in), Hero calls $4.55

Turn: 7 ($23.12, 2 players, 1 all-in)

River: 9 ($23.12, 2 players, 1 all-in)

Total Pot: $23.12
Hero shows A A (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
UTG shows Q Q (a full house, Queens full of Sevens)
Hero shows A A (two pair, Aces and Queens)
UTG shows Q Q (four of a kind, Queens)

UTG wins $11.08
UTG wins $11.08
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-26-2019 , 03:36 AM
H1 and H3: Don't be so results oriented.
re: the sizing hand 3, it's too big, not too small.

Hand 2's probably bad.

Last edited by .isolated; 05-26-2019 at 03:42 AM.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-26-2019 , 07:44 PM
H1: your nut flush ran into a straight flush. This is a cooler. There are plenty of hands he could have that you beat here, K, Q, J high flushes, not just 5x

H2: not sure about this one, however you say "Called because A river makes AK less likely combo wise". There's already only 4 possible combos of AK before the river. On the river, now there are 3 possible combos of AK :P. It's a tough spot really you only have a bluff catcher and it would depend on your stats on V. Are you using a HUD ?

H3: look up some standard re-raise sizes for PF that you can use. You went way too big. I'm not sure how face up it is, maybe you do that with AK, KK as well. Really low SPR ~1, gotta call. This one's a cooler as well imo
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-26-2019 , 11:57 PM
Hand 1, neither flop or turn is a mandatory raise. If you do raise either street you need to go bigger. I especially hate your turn sizing and this should be a default check anyway. River shove is mandatory since villain can easily have worse flushes. I don't really agree at all with your analysis of what villain will be doing.
Hand 2 seems okay. Obviously if villain is a bad player which he seems to be it's hard for him to have bluffs, but it's not impossible he has worse value with an overplayed KT or worse K. If villain is bad enough to check-minraise it's going to be pretty hard to rule that out, or maybe random bluffs with certain villains. Exploitably folding is ok against certain players but calling should be your default.
Hand 3 your sizing needs to be smaller pre. Making it 5.5-6 would be terrible since you're obviously committed anyway.
Either check or shove flop because of how sizings work. As played you need to call because villain could have KK.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 12:07 AM
Hand 3 you should probably just jam flop with your entire range actually. But my main advice is to not play in such a way that you think your hand is as face up as you're saying it is.
It's sometimes fine to put people in a spot where your hand is either a specific good hand or a bluff, but you pretty much never want it to just be a specific good hand.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 02:20 AM
Three bad beat stories
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 02:30 AM
Cheers guys,

Hand 3 was explo sizing versus a station and think it's fine out of position 200bb deep, don't see too much of a need to balance against this player. Didn't shove because wanted to leave him some room to make any kind of mistake. With the SPR as it is I think sizing down flop is good as I don't have to do much to be all in on turn but like the idea of check shoving flop as there is a tendency of people to overstab when checked to in this spot. If I check though I am essentially giving him a chance to realize a tonne of equity with his range and I think versus a station just betting will be higher EV.

@andreicos, had no stats but he wasn't full stacked so probably a fish. It's really hard to be beat but if his bluffing frequency is going to be close to 0 then it's really close. Think call is fine but think fold might be slightly better.

@VALIS, I think jamming flop is more faceup than betting small just because I would never jam anything but AA/KK. If I bet small I could be perceived to have some bet/folds and some potential air. Jamming AK at these stakes in this spot would be lighting money on fire. It's hard not to be too faceup in this spot just because BB 3/5 bet ranges versus UTG are super nutted in general, even more so this deep. And for hand 1, turn raise is super explo against a fish because of reads (his donk turn and the bet size pretty much tell me he has a 5) and I think playing this way on the turn gets max value (maybe just shoving is better?) Don't want to just call when I can get value now/lose a tonne of action on many runouts.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
Three bad beat stories
Maybe number 3 =), but to be honest number 3 is mainly about preflop/flop sizing which obviously I was wrong on so that's good to learn.

I honestly thought number 1 was not as standard as I originally thought given the amount of 5x in villain's range. If villain's range is primarily 5x do I want to shove when he just folds all his non club 5x? Probably was overthinking this but when I shoved I thought maybe that's bad given what I think about his range....

Hand 2 is actually really close. If you call here every-time I am fairly sure that will be losing. If he just bet/bet/bet it's a bad beat for sure. But given the turn I actually think he almost lets us know what he has and we might be able to get away.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 02:54 AM
How would villain two play KT? Could he raise turn small? Yes. Would he check fold river? Probably not. Is jamming better than check-call? Yes.

But overall, trying to find ways to get away from set-ups is an inefficient use of brainpower for most.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
Three bad beat stories


Quote:
If you call here every-time I am fairly sure that will be losing. If he just bet/bet/bet it's a bad beat for sure. But given the turn I actually think he almost lets us know what he has and we might be able to get away.
Inside the mind of a thinking player; ^^^^ hand reading.

In the mind of a fish; "I have trips second kicker and if I'm beaten this is a bad beat.".

Quote:
How would villain two play KT? Could he raise turn small? Yes. Would he check fold river? Probably not. Is jamming better than check-call? Yes.
Do you play micros? lol
Also, we're 17% vs. JJ/AK/KTs/KJs/KQs which makes this a fold.

Quote:
Just feels like he has exactly what he has and our hand is super face up so when he shoves he's basically saying 'I know you have AA but it doesn't matter'. Given the SPR think it's pretty standard, guess he can have some KK and occasional nut flush draws but feels like 99% of the time he just has QQ.
We have the odds to call if his range is only AK/QQ
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
How would villain two play KT? Could he raise turn small? Yes. Would he check fold river? Probably not. Is jamming better than check-call? Yes.

But overall, trying to find ways to get away from set-ups is an inefficient use of brainpower for most.
Don't given villain KT too often given preflop tendencies. So don't beat any of his value range here which is pretty important. In general only really want to be calling here versus a whale/maniac with any kind of bluffing range I think.

@.isolated, thanks for the advice. I know you guys may think these are bad beat stories but when this stuff happens repeatedly for a while it makes you question what is standard etc. Think it's useful to post here and see if I am making any major mistakes/check thought processes.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 03:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 291
@.isolated, thanks for the advice. I know you guys may think these are bad beat stories but when this stuff happens repeatedly for a while it makes you question what is standard etc. Think it's useful to post here and see if I am making any major mistakes/check thought processes.
fwiw, in the first hand, it's worth thinking about. I think all hands are worth thinking about though. But afterwards in my head I always justify it as him making a horrible play ott and it being a net negative for him no matter if I give him my stack every time. On average he's making a $0.49 mistake if he always folds blank rivers (and he won't) and if we always shove. I know this isn't the way to look at poker as each decision has different ev but I'd like to think there's some value when he has a hand like K5x/Q5x and calls river. This hand is why we have bankrolls.

It's much easier to say it's a cooler than type all of the above
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 07:16 AM
Fair enough, hand 2 is a fold but flopped trips v flopped boat... you're supposed to get your shyt fukced up. Just think there are bigger edge spots to sharpen up in.

I disagree that river A makes it more likely to be a call. When the board triple broadways, a villain needs to either turn a pair into a bluff or be bluffing with a non broadway-broadway combo. Players who don't consider what they will bluff with once the board fills in natural bluff combos don't deserve to get paid off and that includes so-called bluffy players who also often lack the foresight to plan ahead.
Standard or misplayed? Quote
05-27-2019 , 08:03 AM
I play the same limits and the only hand here I even think about getting away from is 2, and I likely stack off often.

A few more coolers like this and we'll have stopped global warming.
Standard or misplayed? Quote

      
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