That's the question, I want to read your opinions...I lost a valuebet o the checkback at the river it's ok?

Don't post the results.

I bet turn and don't fold when V raises.

Bet turn and 1/2 pot river.

^^

suicide

checking back river especially IP

bet turn

I think not betting the turn is a pretty big mistake. I think that betting the river is likely much worse than checking.

When you guys are saying check river do you mean check this specific river runout or check most rivers in general? I think that on a cleaner river we should definitely go for 3 streets and bet/fold. Especially with the J, T and 8 on the board, I don't think the SB isn't going to have very many flushes at all.

Also what size should the turn bet be? I'm thinking around half pot with the plan of vbetting most rivers.

Specific river, any card that isn't a 9 or spade. On blanks you definitely can get more value.

As for the sizing on the turn I think I'd probably go for between 50-70% of the pot.

Definitely bet turn.

You should be able to get two streets of value (bet flop and turn) with top set in position on flushy/straighty boards. If villain x-raises this turn, you call and try to make a boat. If he just calls the turn, you check back all rivers, because he can have a flush. (You triple barrel with your own flushes for value, and just go for 2 streets with sets, 2pr). It's a bit of a generalizarion, but you can only really go for 3 streets with a set if there's no possible flush, and there isn't a 4-liner to a straight.

SB often has 88/33 in this spot, so it's annoying if you oversetted him but didn't get the max, but he can just as easily have had KQss/A9ss or something that crushes you.

Why are we checking turn?

You don't think we can get value often enough from non-flush 2p+ hands and TPs with a flush blocker? I haven't gone through the ranges but my gut feeling is that if we use a smaller size, there should be enough worse hands to allow us to get 3 streets even when there's a 3-flush.

On that board I do not think you can get 3 bets called down by worse, no.

P.S. FWIW, I put the hand into MPS for a quick-solve with 60% of pot being the only bet-sizes, and it actually checks back the turn.

EDIT:

I sometimes check back myself, but more commonly I bet 1/3 pot so that I can call if villain raises.

SB shows 8 8: (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 19%, Flop 88%, Turn 2%)

Hero shows J J: (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 81%, Flop 12%, Turn 98%)

Hero wins $0.42
[/hand_history][/converted_hand]


Well, after of showdown I've lost a valuebet

Thanks a lot guys.

Because with my bet on the flop I think that could pay FlushDraws and Straightdarws that get completed in the Turn, I made the check for get my fullhouse.

Thanks for come to the future McFly, I read you.

No you didn't, villain has access to a fold button

What is MPS?

No surprised at this. If as I imagine villain can let tons of Tx go on the turn then what are we really getting value from? OP was just unfortunate to get a bad river card which prevented him from value betting.

Well played OP.

I don't think that solver does anything to help actually figure out the correct play in this scenario.

Have you typed in really good ranges for hero and villain up to the point villain checks (doubtful), have you got a realistic idea as to how villain reacts and hence been able to lock in his strat vs a bet (doubtful) or is that villain going to be reacting in a completely different way to this scenario in reality?

Unless the bet is very large I'd be quite surprised if villain folded any Tx that is in his range.

MyPokerSolver.com
It's an expensive online tool that uses pre-computed solutions from MonkerSolver. I don't really like the user-interface, but I won a load of free solves in a competition.
It's using Monker's "GTO" solutions, based on the pre-flop ranges that they've apparently decided are optimal. Naturally, real life opponents won't be playing optimally pre-flop or on the flop, so you'll make more money by exploiting their imbalances, but checking back makes sense if you only have 60% as a bet-size and you're up against tough opponents that can check-jam on you with a balanced range.

I'm not in any way disputing the validity of solvers. I'd be very interested to see what a very strong flatting range in the SB from CO looks like and I imagine this is where the solver and the actual situation already become so different the results aren't helpful.

Bet turn always!

Why are people so committed to betting turn anyway? Is it because you don't like facing a river probe from a balanced range? This party trick of "buying a showdown" is wearing thin and I'd advise players over-attack it with any x hand they arrive with on the turn. Teach IP you have tons of flushes and you won't be thinnly barrelled.

Edit: I assumed it was BB not SB so he has less flushes and less spade-x, but dont feel like rewriting.