PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 15.63, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 32)
SB: 76.5 BB (VPIP: 35.71, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BB: 112 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 137 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (CO): 235.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 3 J 2
BB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, BB raises to 13.5 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB

Turn: (33.5 BB, 2 players) 4
BB bets 16.5 BB, Hero calls 16.5 BB

River: (66.5 BB, 2 players) T
BB bets 24 BB

Hi everyone,

this is my first post, so please correct me if I did something wrong.
In the hand I had pretty much no idea what to do on the river.
Now I think at first I should definitely 3bet flop and call a 4bet shove.
As played I dont think he has AJ non spade or worse, except bluffs (the only reasonable bluffs are 45s and maybe AK I think), but a bluff in general seems unrealistic to me, especially because his small river bet looks like a valuebet. So I put him on a flush (even though I realise now that I blocked Qs and Ts is on board, so AQ,AT,KQ,KT,QJ,QT,JT,T9 all spades are all blocked) or set (probably 22 or 33, I expect a 3bet from JJ pre) and think fold is best. Is this correct? Any other thoughts about the hand?
Thank You

you need to call small bets more often than big bets

Obviously true, but in this case a call still means hero needs to win the hand more than 20% of the time. What I am interested in is your opinion about hero having >20% winpercentage or not in this hand and why.

As I said, I think villains river bet size indicates more strong hands and less bluffs in villains range, which makes it harder for hero to reach the needed 20%.

But excuse me if this is a clear fold/call for all of you.

You can't 3bet as you opened and BB just flatted.I like your line until the river. Villain can be rarely wide flatting from the bb so I wouldn't rule out some sc hands [43, 32]. Your supposed blocker is of minimal significance as villain doesn't have broadway fds only in his range when he flats from this position.
Villain has bluffs ott and river but unfortunately they'r mostly semi-bluffs and most of those get there otr. Overall I think this line is nearly always value and we're rarely good but we are getting bout 3-1.

No one knows, not even villain

Do you know why there should be less bluffs in villain's range the smaller he bets?

sure he does

I think its a fold. His flop raising range all seemed to have got there. But if you can give him AJ w A of spades or random AsX(doubtful) then you can call. Its pretty close, i doubt calling is much of a mistake.

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at 2nl vs this checkraise size you should probably be 3betting flop. not raising the turn vs half pot is a clear, clear mistake. river you call vs that size as it allows him to somewhat easily have worse for value. I think a set+ is pretty unlikely to raise small on the flop, bet <1/2 pot on the turn, plus you block some flushes, so top pair or random bluff (which is also more likely with small sizes than with large) will easily represent enough of his range to justify a river call. you only need like 21% ffs. just an absolute snapcall. really bad advice in this thread.

What does he raise the flop with, then blast the turn that you beat. The turn probaly felt safe for A/J or even K/J. At micros they can certainly go crazy with top pair on a board like this.
But I'd still expect that line to look more like check/call all streets.
That line to me polarizes to set/flush or full bluff. (Without a history/read on him as being spewy)

It's a tough spot but I'd fold and probably tilt about it anyway.

This is true pre, but I meant to 3bet flop.


I do not think this is true in general and I agree that villains range contains more bluffs on higher limits in this situation, even though I think to bluff this hand as played, villain has to start the hand already with the intention to bluff.

And omg I realise now I wrote 5NLz in the title, but it was actually 2NLz. This is important because on 2NLz I think players bluff more often with big bets than small bets. Wrong?

As you can see I thought it is the exact opposite on 2NLz. Maybe I have to rethink this.

Would shove ott. If v has 22/33 congrats to him.

it's basic math.
And how do you know what happens at "the higher limits"? Did you play there yourself or did you pick up some old rumors?

Probably wanna fold mainly
3betting flop or jamming turn is unnecessary/bad



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I cannot imagine that in general in higher limits a player who bets small has less bluffs in his range because this seems soo exploitative, so this leads to my assumption about higher limits, in which I obviously do not play. Maybe some old rumors and videos/streams are reasons for my thoughts as well.

But whatever. At 2NL I thought the average player is more likely to have less bluffs when betting ~1/3pot otr. And if hero cannot beat villains range more than 20% of the time it is a fold. This is basic math. To say hero should call because it is only 20% is crazy without further arguments.

From your previous posts I expect an answer like „what do you think does exploitative mean?“, so lets stop this here. I liked the discussion in this thread and all your opinions. I will check avg players bluffing range when they betting small. Thanks

What might be true in theory might not be true in reality. I would probably call down as i expect sets to bet turn larger. It's either a flush milking you or Jx scared of the flush is my guess although usually Player tendencies are to go large if they hit the flush.I wouldn't completely rule out sets but i think were good often enough to call river for these sizings.

Dude, this is a $2nl hand. It's ok to just spell it out sometimes instead of trying to look smart. Instead of looking smart, you look like a jackass, as always.

He has less bluffs in his range because theoretically his opponent has to call more often from being exploited. This is obviously not true at $2nl.

oh the self awareness

They usually do size it bigger ott with sets. That's why I opted for the shove since it's seems to me that v has more Jx/fd combos played like this compared to 22/33 and I want to get as much value as possible.

The turn is also a little bit weird with the 1/2 psb because it doens't line v up for a psb shove otr. We can't really raise the turnbet without putting v almost all in. Therefore, I would shove.

V can have AA for all I know. It's NL2.

Sorry about the awful advice and attitude you received early in this thread.

You did a great job writing out your thoughts and presenting this hand.

Exaclty. There are alot of draws that would raise the flop, not many combos of hands that beat us, and Jx will probably stack off.

Exactly, river is a clear fold.

And when he jams over our 3bet we just call hoping he has a flush draw... just not needed since we have no info on V and pop reads tells u flop raises are imbalanced towards value.
Let him bluff..


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+1 to letting him bluff and not jamming turn or 3betting flop

3-betting flop or jamming turn both seem fairly bad to me. I don't think I 3-bet anything on the flop in position because I want to keep my range wide, keep villain's bluffs in, and not shoot myself when I'm trying to figure out what hands I need to call down if I were to 3-bet my overpairs and better.

I'm skeptical about whether you have enough value against villain's continuing range to justify shoving turn. Jx might c/r flop at some frequency, but is it enough for us to shove for value? Does Jx even call a shove? We also block both flush draws. I don't see the point.

I do call river though. I think I have to give up with too many Jx's to fold an overpair with a not-totally-irrelevant blocker. If you want to argue overfolding because it's microstakes and villain doesn't have that many bluffs in his range here, then I think that's reasonable, but in theory we should call the river bet a very high amount of the time.

sorry for being a jerk. in my defense I see that kind of logic all the time and it annoys me

Probably just let the river go. 2nl/5nl population doesn't bluff like this often enough to justify calling. We will sometimes see aa and kk.

Jamming the turn is pretty horrific i would say and as for the flop id really want more info than 5 hands to make a stack sized decision. I think hero played it very well , and i think vs larger sized bets we can get away from the hand at some point.

Ok. Shoving the turn *is not be the best move.