Preflop - 4bet or flat? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Preflop - 4bet or flat?

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03-20-2019 , 04:10 PM

TomLeach

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 87

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 205 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
SB: 203.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 11)
Hero (UTG): 205.5 BB
MP: 106.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
CO: 99.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q

Hero raises to 3 BB, MP raises to 11 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 34.5 BB

Spoiler:

Not a very exciting hand... OOP, 4bet or flat? 4bet means i'm probably against AK at best if he flats/5bets? Flat leaves me in a sticky-ish spot?

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03-20-2019 , 04:41 PM

FoldOnce

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 592

I would just call in an early position battle. Late position I'm getting in QQ for 100bb.

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03-20-2019 , 04:44 PM

Lazarus Ledd

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 505

Flat also might as well shove with that sizing of 4b it would make more sense.

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03-20-2019 , 04:57 PM

TomLeach

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Ledd

Flat also might as well shove with that sizing of 4b it would make more sense.

If I 10x open shove, is he calling with AJo? If I 4bet, does he ever jam AJo?

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03-20-2019 , 04:57 PM

BUSB0Y

banned

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 115

I like both options.

4bet: more money goes in preflop when our range is stronger, but it can be close if he calls. 5 bet is bad news. Post-flop is tricky if A/K falls, you may have to ship it either way. Mehs.

Flat: keep the pot smaller when OOP, creates more maneuverability post flop; allows us to actually get away from the hand if A/K shows up. Allows us to actually stack opponent if Q falls, because we've handed the reins of initiative to him so check-raise turn becomes a strong possibility and he will be committed by then.

4bet results most likely in hero taking it down pre-flop.

//posting before reading spoiler

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03-20-2019 , 05:22 PM

galambostarzan

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 10

Flat = wider opponent range

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03-20-2019 , 06:17 PM

drakelol

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,149

standard flat pre

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03-21-2019 , 05:01 AM

Lazarus Ledd

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 505

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomLeach

If I 10x open shove, is he calling with AJo? If I 4bet, does he ever jam AJo?

If you shove he might think you are donkey and yolo. When you 4b it's standard spot.

I think that sizing is absurd and I think this is flat 100% of time with out reads.

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03-21-2019 , 09:12 AM

Unsporting

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 4,482

Flat

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03-21-2019 , 09:13 AM

#10

TomLeach

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Ledd

If you shove he might think you are donkey and yolo. When you 4b it's standard spot.

I think that sizing is absurd and I think this is flat 100% of time with out reads.

What would you think the sizing should be? At these stakes I normally pot, which is ~3x, should a 4bet be closer to 2.5x?

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03-21-2019 , 09:19 AM

#11

Flpmethntsdlr

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Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Concur with flatting. Your 4b size is pretty bad, imo.

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03-21-2019 , 09:59 AM

#12

TomLeach

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Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

Concur with flatting. Your 4b size is pretty bad, imo.

What would a good 4bet be? 2.5x?

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03-21-2019 , 10:33 AM

#13

Lazarus Ledd

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 505

Yes about 2.5.

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03-21-2019 , 12:57 PM

#14

Flpmethntsdlr

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Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Yeah, usually between 21-25BB depending on positions, stack size, etc.

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03-21-2019 , 01:25 PM

#15

TomLeach

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Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

Yeah, usually between 21-25BB depending on positions, stack size, etc.

Thanks, do you have any info why it would only be a click back/a little larger? I've not really studied 4bet so it's interesting to see the reasons behind this... I suppose the smaller size doesn't commit us to a bloated pot?

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03-21-2019 , 02:28 PM

#16

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

It depends on what you want to accomplish with your size, what it will do to Vs continuing range and what your overall strategy is for beating the games you play in.

As an i.e. if I'm v, which I would never make it 11BB in this spot pre, but, if I did and you made it 33BB, the only hands I'm getting involved with have QQ in rough shape along with AKs. Had you made it 24-26BB, I will likely put more in with worse since I would be IP and getting a better price.

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03-21-2019 , 02:29 PM

#17

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

4-bet or call are both good. I usually 4-bet and use the large size, because I'm not folding to a jam, and I think you can get into some awkward spots if you go smaller and villain flats.

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03-21-2019 , 04:30 PM

#18

jimmyb23

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 236

I think you're good with 4B but vs unknown I'd probably flat

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03-22-2019 , 04:33 AM

#19

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

would rather 4b/gii QQ+,AK vs unknown
I'd only be worried about 4b this vs a confirmed nit

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