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Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

View Poll Results: KJs vs 5x Iso Raise
3Bet 15 65.22%
Call 7 30.43%
Fold 1 4.35%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-04-2021, 07:53 PM   #1
newguyhere
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Poll: Preflop Spot

What do you do with KJs here? HJ posted early and CO iso's to 5x

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0.25(BB)
HERO ($25)
SB ($42.21) [VPIP: 66.7% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 3]
BB ($6.25) [VPIP: 66.7% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 3]
UTG ($14.35) [VPIP: 60% | PFR: 10% | AGG: 36.8% | Hands: 10]
HJ ($25) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
CO ($22.86) [VPIP: 54.5% | PFR: 45.5% | AGG: 43.8% | Hands: 11]

Dealt to Hero: J K

UTG Folds, HJ Checks, CO Raises To $1.25, HERO
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:15 PM   #2
tombos21
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

HJ has the bottom end of any two cards. Therefore I would range CO's iso closer to a regular open. Although they might actually be wider given their fishy stack and initial HUD stats.

Flatting 5bb and playing a capped range in the SB with BB, HJ, and CO in front of you just looks gross. You're getting a terrible price in a terrible position. I think a linear raise/fold is correct here.

KJs is too strong to fold against a regular CO open, and it's probably still too strong against this iso. Calling sucks. So 3bet looks correct.
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:29 PM   #3
DooDooPoker
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

I have been compiling a list of 5x+ opens for 15k hands now. All are at 25nl or 5nl.

1) AKo
2) KK
3) AKs
4) AQo
5) JTs
6) 76s
7) 74s
8) TT
9) J3s
10) 42s
11) QQ
12) ATs
13) AKo

From this small sample - it looks pretty polarized. I'd just call here. I don't want to 3bet into a polarized range with linear holdings.
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:30 PM   #4
newguyhere
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombos21 View Post
HJ has the bottom end of any two cards. Therefore I would range CO's iso closer to a regular open. Although they might actually be wider given their fishy stack and initial HUD stats.

Flatting 5bb and playing a capped range in the SB with BB, HJ, and CO in front of you just looks gross. You're getting a terrible price in a terrible position. I think a linear raise/fold is correct here.

KJs is too strong to fold against a regular CO open, and it's probably still too strong against this iso. Calling sucks. So 3bet looks correct.
Do you think the strategy changes if HJ didn't post early and instead open limped?
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:53 PM   #5
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Example #14

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0.05(BB)
CO ($7.90)
BTN ($9.14)
HERO ($4.95)
BB ($6.46)
UTG ($5)
HJ ($6.69)

Dealt to Hero: Q Q

UTG Raises To $0.26, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Raises To $0.77, BB Folds, UTG Raises To $5 (allin), HERO Calls $4.18 (allin)

Flop ($10): 2 8 7

Turn ($10): 2 8 7 3

River ($10): 2 8 7 3 T

Spoiler:
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:08 AM   #6
BigBananas
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

? 5x ISO and a 5x open aren't the same though
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:13 AM   #7
FutureInsights
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Its not really an iso, since HJ just did a post. KJs is a call.
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:17 AM   #8
tombos21
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyhere View Post
Do you think the strategy changes if HJ didn't post early and instead open limped?
I ranges limps stronger than checking the posted blind. When HJ posts and then checks, they have the passive end of any two cards. This is an extremely wide crappy range. When they limp, they are intentionally choosing to play the hand.

In theory, if HJs range is tighter, than CO's iso should be tighter, then your 3bet should be tighter.
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:46 AM   #9
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

make it 15
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:18 AM   #10
BigBananas
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureInsights View Post
Its not really an iso, since HJ just did a post. KJs is a call.
its way closer to an iso than an open tho. in terms of the 5x players ranges.
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Old 05-05-2021, 03:35 PM   #11
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
From this small sample - it looks pretty polarized. I'd just call here. I don't want to 3bet into a polarized range with linear holdings.
Looking at it this way is certainly better than nothing but I'm not sure that if you did a similar analysis on random 3 or 4x isos you wouldn't get similar results. A pure 5x open is already a bit fishy and polarizing, but with extra money in the pot it's more normal.

If this were a pure open I'd lean call, because the sizing is too fishy to 3-bet against. But it's an "inside the reasonable box" for isoing. Against an unknown making a reasonable sized raise I'm always 3-betting KJs in this spot.
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Old 05-05-2021, 04:09 PM   #12
pjj
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

I'd say in isolation, it's mostly a 3bet for me, with an occasional call (call freq<25%). However, even though we have a small sample on villain, the sample isn't quite insignificant, so those rather loose stats push it towards a 100% 3bet for me.
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:21 PM   #13
Boomerx
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Just treat it like a squeeze spot and 3bet a merged range.

Why does it matter if villain iso range is polarized, if villain has hands like J3s or 74s in his range then.. good for us. I don't expect fish to defend his range properly by 4betting at appropriate frequency, they are either over folding or over calling.
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:38 PM   #14
2021shipit
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

flat calling a 5x raise, even IP shows a lack of fundamentals. Does not make any sense especially high rake env.
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Old 05-06-2021, 02:57 PM   #15
DooDooPoker
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

This question is super complex. You can't just say oh bro I play a 3bet/fold strategy out of the SB so I obviously 3bet or fold here.

That is vs small opens. The whole reason to play a 3bet or fold strategy out of the small blind is because

1) We risk getting squeezed preflop by the BB
2) We cap our range preflop so we can possibly get exploited postflop
3) We act first every street postflop which makes us want to end the hand preflop

2 out of 3 of those things don't happen nearly as often vs a 5x open.

I wouldn't be surprised if the proper counter strategy is to develop flatting ranges in the SB vs 5x polarized opens.

Also the whole high rake argument has been beaten to death. We have rakeback, it's fine.

Last edited by DooDooPoker; 05-06-2021 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-06-2021, 02:58 PM   #16
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerx View Post
Just treat it like a squeeze spot and 3bet a merged range.

Why does it matter if villain iso range is polarized, if villain has hands like J3s or 74s in his range then.. good for us. I don't expect fish to defend his range properly by 4betting at appropriate frequency, they are either over folding or over calling.
3betting merged vs a polarized range doesn't make any sense.

So we 3bet a hand like 88/99 and get 4bet and then what? We unblock Villain's super strong hands so now it is even more likely he has a monster and less likely he has a trash hand.

You should be 3betting polarized with blocker hands vs a polarized open.

Last edited by DooDooPoker; 05-06-2021 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-06-2021, 03:16 PM   #17
newguyhere
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
We have rakeback, it's fine.
Wait...you have rakeback on Ignition? I didn't know that was a thing.
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Old 05-06-2021, 03:44 PM   #18
DooDooPoker
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyhere View Post
Wait...you have rakeback on Ignition? I didn't know that was a thing.
Don't derail your own thread but yes to your question.
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Old 05-06-2021, 04:13 PM   #19
2021shipit
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyhere View Post
Wait...you have rakeback on Ignition? I didn't know that was a thing.
if you still haven't created an acc on bovada you should be able to get rakeback, you will need an aff. It's only 25% or something but it's huge at the micros. Playing w/o rb is punty
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Old 05-06-2021, 05:05 PM   #20
newguyhere
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Re: Poll: Preflop Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
Don't derail your own thread but yes to your question.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2021shipit View Post
if you still haven't created an acc on bovada you should be able to get rakeback, you will need an aff. It's only 25% or something but it's huge at the micros. Playing w/o rb is punty

Ah, yeah I've had my bovada account for ages. Oh well.
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