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Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

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Old 06-01-2020, 09:48 AM   #1
mrfunnywobbl
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Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3bet?

I don't think we should cold call a 3bet with A4s even when deep.

Positions and when players in at the table are regs or fish is unclear.

Am I a nit if I fold A4s facing an open and 3bet at 300bb+ deep?

Assume 6 max cash online.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:51 AM   #2
2019fish2019
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

cold 4 or fold gang where you at
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:55 AM   #3
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

The other thread you were talking about 1300bb.

300bb changes a bit of our range.

Also the PFR makes it very important and the players behind have a little relevancy.

We are really inclined we are BTN and we got fish in the blinds to be involved in a lot of these pots especially if opener is a fish who opens wide and flats a lot of 3b.

You should be looking to flat hands that play well multiway. So a ton of suited connector hands. The deeper you get the more you should be inclined to even come with the Axs.

Presuming the situation is correct.

Of course you want to play hands IP deep even vs nits if your blinds are fish + opener is bad.

Keep in mind you want multiple people deep. It becomes extremely mediocre when the stacks change for our other players. If you're going to play IP as fit/fold then you probably should not be getting involved. You should be utilizing the overbet when the board is bad for our villains ranges and put our nits in tough spots. He's going to have trouble stacking for 300bb.

If he's going to stack overpairs at this depth, just get in there and play fit or fold.

Last edited by SelimSuuuup; 06-01-2020 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:02 AM   #4
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelimSuuuup View Post
The other thread you were talking about 1300bb.

300bb changes a bit of our range.

Also the PFR makes it very important and the players behind have a little relevancy.

We are really inclined we are BTN and we got fish in the blinds to be involved in a lot of these pots especially if opener is a fish who opens wide and flats a lot of 3b.

You should be looking to flat hands that play well multiway. So a ton of suited connector hands. The deeper you get the more you should be inclined to even come with the Axs.

Presuming the situation is correct.

Of course you want to play hands IP deep even vs nits if your blinds are fish + opener is bad.

Keep in mind you want multiple people deep. It becomes extremely mediocre when the stacks change for our other players. If you're going to play IP as fit/fold then you probably should not be getting involved.
Here is my post from the other thread.

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Originally Posted by mrfunnywobbl View Post
Stack depth matters, yes.

But I'm never calling A4s vs an open and a 3bet and I think that is horrible. I wouldn't cold call that at 100bb and not at 1500bb.
I wouldn't call it at 100bb, 300bb, or 1500bb , or almost any stack depth under normal circumstances.

P1 opens, P2 3bets, Hero cold calls 3bet with A4s... then P1 can 4bet and we have to fold.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:05 AM   #5
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

You have specific players who open/call 3-bets a lot and rarely 4-bet. These are the players you call wider ranges.

You even freeze the action cold calling a 3-bet. It's extremely poor to play nitty @ 300bb+ stacks. You're just going to get cooler into coolers playing that way.

You open the range because our opponents are tighter you don't adjust by being tight yourself. That's a nit.
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We float more, we barrel more, we utilize the overbet. We put them in tough spots and print the cash. If they are stations, you can just adjust by fit/fold. It's not hard
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:11 AM   #6
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

Bettsizes would matter for me here too. If you have one of those 2.1bb opens and a 6bb 3bet, then I would go for it
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:16 AM   #7
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

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Originally Posted by SelimSuuuup View Post
We float more, we barrel more, we utilize the overbet. We put them in tough spots and print the cash. If they are stations, you can just adjust by fit/fold. It's not hard
This is the biggest reason to play good speculative hands in these situations.

A lot of stations at these limits, and people that will overplay TP 300BB deep.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:18 AM   #8
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

I should mention that I would only cold call on the button with fish in the blinds, or if I'm in the big blind and closing the action.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:22 AM   #9
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

In the blinds too? Isnt position our greatest advantage here to win? In the blinds we can only play hit or fold
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:28 AM   #10
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

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In the blinds too? Isnt position our greatest advantage here to win? In the blinds we can only play hit or fold
I would say only in the BB when closing the action.

Yeah we'll have to play a little more passive, so I wouldn't call as much here as I would OTB. However, we can mix in some check/raises or donk leads on boards that favor our range.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:43 AM   #11
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

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I would say only in the BB when closing the action.

Yeah we'll have to play a little more passive, so I wouldn't call as much here as I would OTB. However, we can mix in some check/raises or donk leads on boards that favor our range.
Huh? How are we closing the action by cold calling a 3bet in the BB? You know the open raiser still has to act and can 4bet?
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:04 AM   #12
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

Factors that influence whether to play A4s when the pot has already been three-bet:

Effective stack size: If stacks are shallow, it's a waste of money unless we have some fold equity, in which case the blocking potential of the ace helps, and we are not flatting.

The players already involved in the hand: If the opener is a fish whom we want to keep in the pot, we may want to flat at least some of our playing range. If the 3-bettor is particularly aggro, 4-betting re-opens the betting to them, and we stand a likelihood of being 5-bet, which would not be good.

The players yet to act: Same point as above about wanting to keep a fish in the pot, especially if the fish in question is in the big blind. Same point about aggro players acting after -- a cold-four-bet squeeze is even less desirable than a cold-three-bet squeeze.

Blind/ante structure: The more money there is in the pot, the more we are incentivized to play hands. Are there antes? Is there a straddle? More than one?

Hero's position: I would be more inclined to flat from the button than I would first to act after the three-bettor, especially in a full ring game where the opener and three-bettor are in the earliest positions, so that there are potentially six or even seven players who have the opportunity to four-bet squeeze.

Villain postflop tendencies: If no one is going to stack off without the nuts, playing implied-odds hands goes down in value.

That's just a start, and I am no expert. Shooting from the hip, I think in a two-blind game we would want to start thinking about the possiblilty of flatting 3-bets somewhere around 500 bb deep.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:13 AM   #13
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

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Originally Posted by newguyhere View Post
I would say only in the BB when closing the action.
We are never closing the action, that's why cold calling is generally bad.

I don't think there is an "above this stack size" rule. While it is obviously more acceptable to call he deeper you get, I would say player reads are the most important factor. Doesn't matter if you're 10,000 bbs deep, if the raiser and 3 better are aggressive, you're probably not seeing the flop very often if you cold call.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:11 PM   #14
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfunnywobbl View Post
I don't think we should cold call a 3bet with A4s even when deep.

Positions and when players in at the table are regs or fish is unclear.

Am I a nit if I fold A4s facing an open and 3bet at 300bb+ deep?

Assume 6 max cash online.

card edge>initiative> relative position>skill in that order to decide 4b/fold/call

cold 3b calling A4s violates the top 3 criteria for me
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:17 PM   #15
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

In a vacuum I fold ~80%
4bet ~20%
Cold call 0% and that still feels like too much
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:27 PM   #16
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Re: Player 1 Opens, Player 2 3bets, Hero has A4s - At what stack depth do you cold call the 3be

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In a vacuum I fold ~80%
4bet ~20%
Cold call 0% and that still feels like too much
thank you
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