is this a bluffcatch? or we should fold?



Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (BTN): $2.75 (137.5 bb)
SB: $2.19 (109.5 bb)
BB: $1.71 (85.5 bb)
UTG: $2.92 (146 bb)
MP: $2 (100 bb)
CO: $2 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with T Q
2 folds, CO raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, 2 folds, CO calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.39) 4 5 Q (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $0.17, CO calls $0.17

Turn: ($0.73) 4 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.73) 3 (2 players)
CO bets $0.60, Hero ???

You have better hands to call with K/Q A/Q Q/J thats 36 combos. So no you dont have to call here in a vaccum. If you call this you call with way to many queens imo.

i think i have to agree with you!

what betsizing would you call with this hand?

This is completely ridiculous but why would I take the time to help you?

iso could you explain me? would you call this river bet?

I guess I won't be a complete dick. I would call. Contrary to what zi posted, we shouldn't have AQ in our range on the river ever when we get here this way, and very rarely with KQ. So this is one of the best hands we can have that's played in this manner. Pretty straight forward call.

It's also impossible for someone to say for certain that this is a call/fold because nobody knows your 3-betting range. Only you know that and how you play your range postflop. But intuitively, I think it'd be very hard for this hand to not be a snap call.

But...

It's a 3bet pod. So we have here 12 combos of overpairs 24 combos of tptk and top pair and good kicker.

Except that our overpairs and TPTK hands don't make it to the river this way because we'd just triple barrel them off - so as played QT is now way higher in our distribution.

But...
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your 3bet bluff range BTN vs CO doesnt contain QTo?

+1. I also fold pre. Dont even think twice about it

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tbh i dont think villain shows up with too many bluffs esp when we have the Tc, probably still sigh calling tho

Your line can easily be construed as 3bet light to defend pre, c-bet unimproved and give up ott. Villain can probably go for thin value otr with a pp, has some busted fds and shouldn't have many 4s in his range. Think we have to call it off here.

3 betting QTo can't see it as a default. Has to be a good exploitative reason ie. Folds too much to 3bets.

Put me in the "fold preflop" camp, although I can see 3-banging to exploit overfoldiness. But for that to be good we would have to have an actual read on the villain.

As played, I think this is a snap call.

Bladesman said something a couple weeks ago about discussing hands in which mistakes get compounded after the initial mistake is made as being unproductive.

Fold pre.

The Jailhouse Phone-Call Conjecture

There are just so many better hands to 3-bet before getting to 3b QTo. If villain's overfolding, there's a good chance that if we're 3-betting QTo, that it's dominated when called.

So you 3b pre, flop good and fire one half pot bet, and then give up.

This sounds like the worst possible way to play poker.

If you 3b pre, which is frisky but not awful, you absolutely need to fire flop and turn barrels.

As played any busted draw just owns your soul on the river.

Checking turn's fine. Betting 1/3p or less ott is fine as well. Speaking about things in absolutes isn't good.

Considering this is close to the tippy top of our range and we're snap calling, how does a busted draw "own our soul"? This is part of why checking turn is fine.

I don’t want to necro an old thread in a forum in which I don’t know anybody, but clearly you can have EITHER a range of hands OR you can locate yourself in a solved branch of game tree. Not both. You cant teleport to a location in the tree and suddenly have the correct range for that location, and finish the hand optimally.

All you can do is continue the story you are telling, and hero is telling the story of having KQ+, which is the actual range he would 3b with, plus suited Qx.

If you make a mistake early, by three betting QTo, your hand is simply not strong enough for all of the branches of game tree where the player in your seat 3bets. Nothing you do later in the hand can restore balance, your hand is just weak.

Stronger Qx would have bet the turn, imo. So hero should bet turn.

Points taken, I agree. I thought hero folded or the thread told him to fold.

Anyone up for checking back the flop? We have tons of playability on turns with the ten of clubs and our hand is super disguised here. It also balances the times we are doing a lazy check back with 99 or A8 no bdfd.

I think if we are constructing a very depolarized threebet range, it's mandatory to have some check backs on flops as we will show up with a lot of middling hands that play well for smaller pots.

^^ Yeah, definitely can x back otf.

Another downside to this 3b is if it goes to SD and V catches on you are 3b so wide, they can 4b liberally or the blinds can start restealing if they are paying any attention.