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Old 05-16-2018, 11:12 AM   #1
Percyeus86
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Question NL2 - Line check with AA.

Did I misplay this anywhere?

First, my thought process.

Flop: After he raises, I was OK with just flatting, considering we hold the blocker to the nut flush. Also, I want to keep his bluffs in. Also, happy if he wants to for three streets with AQ, KQ. Ruling out QQ. TT/22 feasible.

Turn: Great card. Happy to check and let him continue. Also, a bit of pot control in my thoughts.

River: Great card to lead on holding Ad? Thoughts on PSB to put him all in? Underrepped hand if he decides to hero with AQ, KQ. If he has TT, 22 - can we now get him to fold out?

    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37934039

    BTN: $2.37 (118.5 bb)
    SB: $2.04 (102 bb)
    BB: $4.05 (202.5 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $2.38 (119 bb)
    MP: $2.12 (106 bb)
    CO: $3.32 (166 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with A A
    Hero raises to $0.06, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.06, 2 folds

    Flop: ($0.15) T 2 Q (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.06, BTN raises to $0.24, Hero calls $0.18

    Turn: ($0.63) 7 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $0.44, Hero calls $0.44

    River: ($1.51) 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.64 and is all-in, BTN calls $1.63 and is all-in




    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


    All comments appreciated.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 01:30 PM   #2
    cantor1987
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Don't like river at all it's like your turning your hand into a bluff. Your thought process seem abit out.

    Flop: don't disagree with play looks completely standard and well played. About having the Ad blocker, it's better that you don't have it because then it's more likely Villian has AXdd bluff combos.

    Turn: looks fine. v passive players at 2nl I'd start to feel abit uncomfortable now.

    River : not sure what's going off tbh you would be miles better off checking and deciding rather than just donking into a polarised range where when you called your beat 90% as a guess
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    Old 05-16-2018, 01:55 PM   #3
    Percyeus86
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cantor1987 View Post
    Don't like river at all it's like your turning your hand into a bluff. Your thought process seem abit out.

    Flop: don't disagree with play looks completely standard and well played. About having the Ad blocker, it's better that you don't have it because then it's more likely Villian has AXdd bluff combos.

    Turn: looks fine. v passive players at 2nl I'd start to feel abit uncomfortable now.

    River : not sure what's going off tbh you would be miles better off checking and deciding rather than just donking into a polarised range where when you called your beat 90% as a guess
    Thank you for your input.

    Yeah, after reviewing, think I got river hugely wrong.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 01:58 PM   #4
    pokrr
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    If you're going to gii, the turn is the better place to do it, but I would not recommend that at all for this hand. That river is one of the worst cards in the deck. Fold.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 02:21 PM   #5
    kolob32
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Flop-Why not shove after he raises your flop bet? He could raise with AQ, KQ

    Maybe you are only get called by better OTF but he could call with AQ, KQ,
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    Old 05-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #6
    Percyeus86
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kolob32 View Post
    Flop-Why not shove after he raises your flop bet? He could raise with AQ, KQ

    Maybe you are only get called by better OTF but he could call with AQ, KQ,
    I felt it was better to flat and let him keep his bluffs in.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 02:52 PM   #7
    simplelessons
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    V has enough bluffs that will GII on the flop to make shoving ok. Calling is fine too but its important to remember that once we choose to call our hand is a bluff-catcher.

    We are probably supposed to defend this hand vs all bets on the river.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 03:18 PM   #8
    Zivermiver
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    So lets break it down:
    The biggest mistake was the rivershove. You will only get called by better. By shoving the river your are essential turning your hand into a bluff saying you have the nutflush. So I will assume this hand played at the river differently and villain shoved and you had to call. So the question is what should you call with?

    What does he checkraise for value on the flop:
    - Q/10 = 9 combos
    - 22 = 3 combos

    He does not have TT or QQ. These would 3bet preflop.
    If there is a chance in hell he raises top pair good kicker then take a note.

    So lets say villain is overbluffing the flop and check raises every flushdraw and every straight draw.

    Range: 12 Value combos
    Value + Bluffs: KJs,QTs,J9s,98s,KdQd,QdJd,KdTd,JdTd,Kd9d,Qd9d,Td9d ,Kd8d,Qd8d,Jd8d,Td8d,Kd7d,Qd7d,Jd7d,9d7d,8d7d,Kd6d ,7d6d,Kd5d,6d5d,Kd4d,5d4d,Kd3d,4d3d,Kd2d,KJo,QTo,J 9o-J8o

    You need to defend around 48% of your range on the river so villain cant just bluff you off the hand.

    You get to the river with this range I guess:
    QQ+,TT,22,AQs,KQs,QTs+,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQo,KQo ,QTo+
    = 68 Combos
    So 48% means 35 combos = QQ+,TT,22,AQs,KQs,QTs+,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQo,KQo ,QTo+

    You should rather calling with A/Q with a diamond in it or KK with a diamond but thats debateable. A/Q blocks a lot of his value raising range.

    So with AA this is a fold you have way better hands to call with sets 2 pair and nut flushes. I assumed that on the turn you fold weak ace flush draws. So just call Ad/Jd+

    TLDR: Call with your sets, flushes and top two pair.

    Hope this helps

    Last edited by Zivermiver; 05-16-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 03:19 PM   #9
    Flpmethntsdlr
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    3b flop is pretty disastrous unless you know they're going to overplay Qx and won't fold it. I would also go a little bigger otf, 4.5-5BB.

    Turn I don't think I xc, probably x jam or x fold.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 03:38 PM   #10
    Percyeus86
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Thanks guys. Really constructive.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 03:42 PM   #11
    simplelessons
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zivermiver View Post
    You get to the river with this range I guess:
    QQ+,TT,22,AQs,KQs,QTs+,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQo,KQo ,QTo+
    = 68 Combos
    So 48% means 35 combos = QQ+,TT,22,AQs,KQs,QTs+,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQo,KQo ,QTo+
    It is highly unlikely we get to the river this way with all those combos. Certainly some of the stronger draws and made hands raise at some point along the way.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 05:26 PM   #12
    Zivermiver
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by simplelessons View Post
    It is highly unlikely we get to the river this way with all those combos. Certainly some of the stronger draws and made hands raise at some point along the way.
    I cant edit my orignal post posted the same range twice :X. The ranges still are quite the same. You get to the river with QQ+,TT,22,AQs,KQs,QTs+,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQo,KQo ,QTo+ = 68 combos

    And you should call here with 48% of our range so
    QQ,TT,22,KdKh,KdKs,KdKc,QTs,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQ o,QTo,KdQh,KdQs,KdQc,KhQd,KsQd,KcQd = 35 combos

    The argument of raise some point does not make any sense. Hero got check raised on the flop it just makes sense to call the flop keep ranges wide (so bluffs and value are in that range) and just call down with top two or set or some combodraw like nutflush + gutshot. If you raise the turn with draws and get shoved on hero is most likely behind. Raising the turn with a set makes villains range just stronger and folds out his bluffs.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 06:04 PM   #13
    simplelessons
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zivermiver View Post
    I cant edit my orignal post posted the same range twice :X. The ranges still are quite the same. You get to the river with QQ+,TT,22,AQs,KQs,QTs+,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQo,KQo ,QTo+ = 68 combos

    And you should call here with 48% of our range so
    QQ,TT,22,KdKh,KdKs,KdKc,QTs,AdKd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad6d,AQ o,QTo,KdQh,KdQs,KdQc,KhQd,KsQd,KcQd = 35 combos

    The argument of raise some point does not make any sense. Hero got check raised on the flop it just makes sense to call the flop keep ranges wide (so bluffs and value are in that range) and just call down with top two or set or some combodraw like nutflush + gutshot. If you raise the turn with draws and get shoved on hero is most likely behind. Raising the turn with a set makes villains range just stronger and folds out his bluffs.
    No. Qq, tt, qt and other hands can gii on the flop, they don't need to call to keep ranges wide.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 06:37 PM   #14
    Zivermiver
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by simplelessons View Post
    No. Qq, tt, qt and other hands can gii on the flop, they don't need to call to keep ranges wide.
    Yes they do oO. Why would you want to fold out on the flop every draw? Its a minus ev shove the spr is over 10. This is not a 3/4 bet pot where the spr is 3 and you can just go with it.
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    Old 05-16-2018, 07:57 PM   #15
    simplelessons
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zivermiver View Post
    Yes they do oO. Why would you want to fold out on the flop every draw? Its a minus ev shove the spr is over 10. This is not a 3/4 bet pot where the spr is 3 and you can just go with it.
    They dont have to shove but they are going to 3bet the flop or turn a large % of the time.
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    Old 05-17-2018, 05:25 AM   #16
    Zivermiver
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by simplelessons View Post
    They dont have to shove but they are going to 3bet the flop or turn a large % of the time.
    Again why would you want to 3bet the flop. You only make ranges smaller.
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    Old 05-17-2018, 08:44 AM   #17
    simplelessons
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zivermiver View Post
    Again why would you want to 3bet the flop. You only make ranges smaller.
    Why would we ever want to raise or bet with the logic? Every aggressive action makes ranges smaller. Its part of the game.
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    Old 05-17-2018, 02:50 PM   #18
    Flpmethntsdlr
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    Re: NL2 - Line check with AA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zivermiver View Post
    Again why would you want to 3bet the flop. You only make ranges smaller.
    With 22/TT/QQ, to get more money in the middle.

    Also, hero is OOP, V is otb.
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