NL10z - Looking for help on barrelling - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 188 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
SB: 39.4 BB
BB: 109.9 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG: 126.6 BB
Hero (MP): 110.7 BB
CO: 266.8 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 22.5 BB, CO calls 12.5 BB

Flop: (46.5 BB, 2 players) 8

Hero bets 25 BB, CO calls 25 BB

Turn: (96.5 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero bets 63.2 BB and is all-in, CO calls 63.2 BB

River: (222.9 BB, 2 players) 9

I want to start barrelling more. I was wondering if this is a good spot to do it.

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04-23-2018 , 05:26 PM

pokerforumposter

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 856

Your 4bet is too small oop, make it 3x usually. Also, I don't think you make money 4betting with AQ in these positions vs randoms on 10z. I would go smaller on the flop like 1/3. AP give up turn, you really only fold out like JJ basically. In general barrel when your opponent has a weak range and you have equity, here they have a very strong range, also your spade draw is not to the nuts which really hurts your equity.

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04-23-2018 , 05:30 PM

The Bukafax

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerforumposter

AQo is my bluff range here for MP FWIW

Quote

04-23-2018 , 05:55 PM

pokerforumposter

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 856

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bukafax

AQo is my bluff range here for MP FWIW

Yeah that's reasonable, its just that 4betting mainly prevents you from being exploited which I don't think is even possible in this spot at nl10.

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04-23-2018 , 06:40 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

I would bet smaller on the flop. It's well played otherwise.

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04-23-2018 , 07:49 PM

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

I would bet smaller on the flop. It's well played otherwise.

Okay, I really don't get how this is not spew at NL10. Looking at Vils stats, and considering he's deep, we can assume he's not just a fish, and likely a reg. But even considering that, after he flats a 4-bet and then calls a pretty big bet on a K high flop, I don't get how putting any more money in the pot is +ev.

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04-23-2018 , 08:40 PM

SharkytheFish

adept

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,114

Once villain calls the flop bet you have a problem. You can rep the flush but villain is probably still calling with AK and possibly even some of the hands he should definitely be folding [QQ/JJ] given he's getting such a good price ott. I think the main point to note is this spewy line is not likely to be profitable at the micros.

Last edited by SharkytheFish; 04-23-2018 at 08:41 PM. Reason: typo

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04-23-2018 , 09:07 PM

simplelessons

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Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,006

V can call flop with qq/jj/tt and fold turn to our sizing. V also isnt going to have that much ak given blockers and action.

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04-23-2018 , 09:15 PM

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerforumposter

Your 4bet is too small oop, make it 3x usually.

No.

Quote

04-23-2018 , 09:26 PM

#10

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

V can call flop with qq/jj/tt and fold turn to our sizing. V also isnt going to have that much ak given blockers and action.

V isn't a complete fish. I doubt that someone who is at least trying to win would flat a 4 bet and then call a big bet on a K high flop w 1010-QQ.

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04-23-2018 , 09:34 PM

#11

simplelessons

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Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,006

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokrr

V isn't a complete fish. I doubt that someone who is at least trying to win would flat a 4 bet and then call a big bet on a K high flop w 1010-QQ.

V can comfortably peel with some/all of those hands IP in a 4b pot, fish or not.

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04-23-2018 , 10:33 PM

#12

The Bukafax

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladesman87

No.

Blades whats your analysis for this? Too much for NL10?

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04-23-2018 , 11:34 PM

#13

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

the amount of weaktightery in this thread

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04-24-2018 , 03:34 AM

#14

SharkytheFish

adept

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokrr

V isn't a complete fish. I doubt that someone who is at least trying to win would flat a 4 bet and then call a big bet on a K high flop w 1010-QQ.

How do we know villain isn't a complete fish? Flatting a 4 bet and calling it off with 2nd pair seems well in line with the sort of play you can encounter from an unknown opponent at this level. Wouldn't be in the least be surprised to see someone take that line.

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04-24-2018 , 03:48 AM

#15

kolotoure2.0

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 423

You have a lot more nutted hands than villain does and even when he calls your equity against his range isn't terrible so it looks fine to me

Quote

04-24-2018 , 04:07 AM

#16

Mr. Waldo

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 52

He probably has TT-QQ in his range, so I guess it's ok. I wouldn't do it vs an unknown at micro stakes though. Would you still shove on a 7 of diamond turn ?

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04-24-2018 , 04:30 AM

#17

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

How can we assume anything about Villian when we have ten hands on him we don't know wether he's a fish or not. So I would just play pop tendencies and seen as though he flats a 4bet assign him a strong range.

Why the reason for using AQo as a 4bet bluff? Do you think villian is folding a better hand then AQ to a 4bet?

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04-24-2018 , 04:36 AM

#18

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Better fold AQ and 4bet AT instead, then we're sure villain folds better hands to our 4bet bluff

Quote

04-24-2018 , 05:09 AM

#19

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

Better fold AQ and 4bet AT instead, then we're sure villain folds better hands to our 4bet bluff

Where did I say fold?

Quote

04-24-2018 , 05:19 AM

#20

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Think you're gonna make a lot of money calling AQ in this spot? It'll be marginally +EV at best and if it is 4betting is probably higher EV.

We don't need villain to fold better hands in order to 4bet. Like we don't need villain to fold better hands when we 5bet jam AK.

But fair enough, you didn't go as far as saying we should fold instead of 4bet bluffing. Just teasing

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04-24-2018 , 06:37 AM

#21

The Bukafax

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantor1987

It's a bluff because if he calls his range his ahead of my hand. AQo is the better option the AT just because of blocked QQ combos vs TTs which more likely will fold.

Quote

04-24-2018 , 06:41 AM

#22

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

better stop labelling hands as bluff/value, especially true the further away we are from the river

Quote

04-24-2018 , 06:58 AM

#23

The Bukafax

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

better stop labelling hands as bluff/value, especially true the further away we are from the river

How come? I saw Matt Janda mention this in one of his book threads. He didn't leave a reasoning in the post, just said the same thing.

Quote

04-24-2018 , 07:08 AM

#24

The Bukafax

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,520

And just for the lulz, guy showed up with K8s. LOL to those trying to assume he's solid on his stats.

Quote

04-24-2018 , 07:32 AM

#25

GrimIsCool

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,346

Ojune has touched on it but just going to phrase another way to help explain.

AQo plays better as a flat in this position than a 4-bet because you derive more EV playing against a range you dominate (AJo/ATs/KQs/QJs etc.) than either folding out this range + bluffs or continuing against a range that dominates you (AA/KK/QQ/AKo/AQs).

If you do want to continue with your analogy of pre-flop bluffing/value hands, then it can't be considered a bluffing candidate because you never fold out better near always fold out worse.

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