nl10z - KK in squeezed family pot facing 2+stack shove - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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nl10z - KK in squeezed family pot facing 2+stack shove

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03-16-2018 , 04:35 PM

Kraz

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 43

Are we calling the massive shove?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37932427

BTN: $17.48 (174.8 bb)
SB: $10.31 (103.1 bb)
Hero (BB): $27.31 (273.1 bb)
UTG: $4.63 (46.3 bb)
MP: $34.54 (345.4 bb)
CO: $23.86 (238.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

UTG raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.90, UTG calls $1.60, MP calls $1.60, CO calls $1.60, BTN calls $1.60

Flop: ($9.55) 2

(5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.73 and is all-in, MP folds, CO raises to $21.96 and is all-in, BTN folds, HERO???

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Last edited by Kraz; 03-16-2018 at 04:43 PM.

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03-16-2018 , 04:52 PM

Feng Shui

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 595

I wouldn't not when the flop went 5 way. Villain can just call the short stack shove and i see no reason for them to iso with say TT JJ.

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03-16-2018 , 05:52 PM

dblrun

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 45

Bet ~1/3 or 1/2 pot on flop. As played call. We lose to too little to fold. And I could easily see the CO doing this with 99 once original raiser checks and shorty shoves. You just lose to too little. I think you're at least winning the (sizable) side pot most of the time .

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03-16-2018 , 06:00 PM

FreakDaddy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18,006

No. Too deep to call that off w/ a pair unless you have some other specific info you didn't mention.

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03-16-2018 , 06:31 PM

Mr Yaba Daba Doo

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 279

I'd say start with cbetting the flop and go from there. If you'd bet and goes shove shove then o would seriously consider folding.

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03-16-2018 , 08:28 PM

DSA Stephen

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 947

Bet flop

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03-16-2018 , 09:34 PM

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSA Stephen

Bet flop

Why is betting better than checking? Our equity vs 3 players isn't great and several opponents can have 8x or 22. Doesnt seem like a spot where we can go 3 streets and having the Ks means we dont need much protection. Pot controlling seems better but I'd like to hear your reasons for betting.

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03-17-2018 , 07:43 AM

DSA Stephen

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 947

I dont expect there to be a lot of 22 sure some but not a lot, betting just makes playing this easier imo, if we bet and it goes Jam utg, Jam co we have a pretty easy fold, but as played we are in a horrible spot where we either really ahead or really behind, if we get called tehn probably checking most turns but prefer to start of with a bet here

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03-17-2018 , 09:18 AM

Marcinx15

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 156

As played folding is standard here. I would also prefer betting 1/4-1/3 pot on the flop.

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03-17-2018 , 06:31 PM

#10

dblrun

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

Sometimes we get more information by checking but in this case it's the opposite. We start to define ranges more clearly when we bet. Like someone already stated if we bet and it goes shove shove we can comfortably fold. There are a lot of hands we should be getting value from also like 99-JJ. I think when its multi way like this it's better to be denying equity from any A highs and PPs on the flop than trying to pot control

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03-18-2018 , 07:38 AM

#11

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

The reason C.O. played his hand was specifically to get you in a situation like this. It seems absurd to lay it down, but unless you've seen him do this exact play against someone else who was deep and it was a bluff, fold anyway.

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03-21-2018 , 04:29 AM

#12

Goobus

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 32

Anyone else think the squeeze was too small? I would have made it like 2.30-2.40 or something because we're OOP and there were so many callers.

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03-23-2018 , 02:56 AM

#13

dblrun

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goobus

Anyone else think the squeeze was too small? I would have made it like 2.30-2.40 or something because we're OOP and there were so many callers.

yeah i missed that. i would size it around the same. sometimes bigger or smaller depending on table dynamics but 2.40 would be standard

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03-23-2018 , 10:28 AM

#14

Risso

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 316

the pot is quite big and co has a player to the left after. Seems strange that v would play 8x or 22 this way. Seems like a 'I shove' therefore 'I look strong' but in reality there's a vulnerable hand like 99-TT just want to iso the shortstack. Think I would call and then laugh at myself for coming to that conclusion

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03-23-2018 , 12:27 PM

#15

Kraz

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblrun

yeah i missed that. i would size it around the same. sometimes bigger or smaller depending on table dynamics but 2.40 would be standard

What formula do you use to determine the sq size? I use 10bb oop to start and then add 3bb per caller (3x open). Thought that was big already but seems not.

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03-23-2018 , 01:25 PM

#16

dblrun

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 45

Hmm this is a little embarrassing but I just click pot and click the slider to the right a few bb. I think this is roughly the equivalent of making it 4x original open + 3bb per caller. IP I just click pot. But what I'm going for is around 3.5x original open + 3bb per caller. 1o bb + 3per caller might be correct in certain line ups . In fishier games where people over call too much you need to size up. Against good players that fold correctly to 3bets and resqueeze light size down .

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03-23-2018 , 02:30 PM

#17

ARCANGEL0

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 2,799

pretty easy stack off otf imo

glgl

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03-23-2018 , 02:45 PM

#18

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

Not a fan of stacking this deep, but also can't see him blowing us off our checking range with this huge overbet when he can try and milk us over 3 streets. But, 2tone flop might make him want to play it this way. Call imo

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03-24-2018 , 03:39 PM

#19

VALIS

adept

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 710

Your flop check is pretty weird, but I think regardless of how you're constructing your flop checking range, this is a must-call.
CO could easily have really any overpair and assume that everyone else in the hand is capped. If CO has like 99 here there's really no reason to assume he's behind anyone except maybe the occasional BB trap or if the button happens to have an 8 or better.

Even exploitably, it doesn't even look like CO has an 8 because it's very unclear what he would expect to get called by

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03-24-2018 , 03:46 PM

#20

VALIS

adept

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 710

I understand the the notion of "he's betting 2x pot into a dry side pot, you have to fold!" but you're underrepped and if you know your opponent is a thinking player at all, this is just a really bad line to take with any hand that actually beats you.
I think his most likely holding is 99 and especially 99-JJ

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