Well he should do that,but its really hard to defend wide in this spot because he has so little made hands.

What's your plan for the rest of the hand then? Are villains really x/r this flop and then checking two streets? Like I said, 90% of the deck is bad for us. Look, if we get bet into then call for sure but a x/r is pretty strong here and we are just never getting to a showdown with the best hand. See my post above for examples of good and bad cards. Not sure how you can't see that this is spew. Like what's your plan for the rest of the hand? Just hope for two checks from villain and you can take it down with third pair 7 kicker? Lol

1000% this. .... Skimmed over all the babble in this thread and stopped here ^^^^

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^^ Poker is a complex game though and sometimes there isn't an easy answer. AP fold then but flop if a clear fold. I've tried to give as little as babble as possible here. Hopefully that works for you

You are assigning villain a range without any information, if anything OP has implied villain is FOS perhaps meaning overbluffing. The line of thinking where this hand never gets to showdown is very assumptive also. If we go by your thinking, it heavily incentives a high cbet strat and no barrelling vs you because you are rarely folding after the flop. You have to call flops and fold turns sometimes.

My opinion: Cbet is okay, call flop. Could be a reasonable turn call (depends if villain defends 75o pre) but you're better calling with A8/K8/86 as it blocks more value.

op states villain is an unknown Reg so i'm not sure how to interpret that. Do we have any reads stats or info for villain or is villain unknown. Have you just perceived villain as splashy over a tiny sample ?.

We have plenty of information. Villain has flatted bb vs btn and xr flop. He can have all trips, all 8s, all combo draws, lots of overcards + FD etc. And like I said, I'd flat a c bet here, but that's not what's happened. We've been xr which screams strength or big draw. There are so many cards that's complete draws and that's he's gonna barrel that it becones -ev to flat, and that's on the fairly unlikely assumption that we're already ahead. How often do you xr a board like this wth a draw and then x turn AND river? Almost certainly never

All that is relevant but it isn't sufficient to deviate from a good strategy (which would involve calling the x/r here). Think you got a little confused, I meant calling the x/r would be my advice.

These are your interpretations of possibly how you play or how your pool plays, however we have no info on villain or OPs player pool. For example spades, T9dx, AXd etc can all be x/r and checked turns along with some FDs, which players playing versus you would be heavily incentivised to do so.

Now within my player pool it's rare for players to do so, however, to call it splashy without any knowledge on OPs pool or implying why is just wrong and misleading.

Specific villain unknown but regs playing actively and exploitatively in the general pool. Shows down the TJo in this hand so with that in mind and without orienting around results, I want to develop a counter strategy vs a range which includes these kinds of hands

If this is a bet fold, what are we continuing with as a default vs an aggressive player raising wide/overbluffing on the flop? Or are we adjusting cbet strategy and checking back more etc

Ty
Flop is wet enough to raise I guess and can have some strong hands, but given player pool is going aggro often I am suspicious here

I understood your advice, I just don't think it's very good. Yes, if we could showdown on the flop with no more action maybe, but the plethora of draws that will come in + the fact we can be beat make it a fold. You're being really myopic here. There are 2 streets and almost certainly more aggression to come from villain. The turn that drops isn't even one of the worst ones for us and most people are saying fold. What turns are we calling except 8s? non-diamond 2s and 3s? If one of those drop and we call, what rivers are we calling? Non diamond 2s and 3s again? Are we expecting villain to give up on an ace high bluff? Seriously what is your plan for this hand when flatting the flop XR? Genuine question

Maybe JJ+, nut flush draws, any 5, 67 diamonds.

Honestly mate, some of these guys are giving you bad advice. A lot of it amounts to LOL TOP PAIR CAN'T FOLD LOL!!1 On a paired, flush and straight board this hand is just lighting money on fire as a bet/call. You're not even that happy getting x/r when holding overpairs, even NFDs + overs aren't hands you're happy about stacking off with.

I would c bet flop small (50%) as your hand needs protection, if he calls then c bet again 40% or so then x back river unless your straight hits. Super easy/standard. AP fold to flop X/R, fold turn, fold river.

I tend to agree with BQD that flop is a fold for lot's of good reasons stated. If you change the 5s to the 5c we now have a clear call as we can defend far more turns vs continued aggression.

Looks like someone hasn't plug in the hand into a solver yet and is still advocating a ridiculously exploitable strategy while trying to make fun of other's advice. Nice.

That would be a small proportion of our betting range - is this not very exploitable?

Lmao, no need to be so aggressive. To make it extremely clear, you'd be easily exploitable if you folded this flop. Turn should be checked a little bit less than 50% by BB, given they are raising a decent range including lots of backdoors. Once again it seems like you're being to assumptive of villain, assuming he double barrels a very high percentage when you have little to base this off from OPs post.

Calling the turn depends on the turn card and our flop cbet strategy. I'm not the one being myopic here, rather than going on about 'plans' for the hand, think about what you're assuming about villains range to think that they're barreling turns a very high %.

Personally I bluff these paired boards a lot by check raising with air against weak tight opponents. You are highly exploitable especially at 100NL if you are folding these hands. Bet fold with top pair on this board is terrible.

Not being aggressive at all, just stating my case - seems pretty obvious to me. You know it's OK to be exploitable sometimes? We're making an exploitative fold based on the fact villain bluffs a lot and is almost literally never checking 2 more streets to us. Like I said, how often does a villain, who OP has identified bluffs a lot, x/r this type of flop and then x 2 streets and let us win with a hand that will probably end up being 3rd pair w/ 7 kicker?

And you are being myopic, that's literally what not planning ahead refers to in this context. We beat none of villain's x/r value range. If villain has absolute air - 32o for instance, he can barrel a 4,6,7,9,T,J,Q,K,A or any diamond, and we can't call. The offuit 9 that fell is one of the better cards for us and we STILL end up folding.

More broadly, postflop planning is a big part of being a winning player at any decent limit and was something that I wa coached about extensively. You, and lot of the guys ITT seem to have the mindset of 'call bcoz i haz top pair and evaluate' - which honestly is burning money. You need to get to a level where you can see a flop and have a decent idea idea of your line for the rest of the hand. The highest EV line is b/f flop (small), b/f turn (small), x back river. Bet calling flop to 'see what happens' is spew, sorry if you and the rest of the guys ITT don't see it, but it is.

It's spew/amateurish play to x/r this board w/air. Hero in this hand can obviously have all NFDs, all trips, all overpairs etc. It's a blind bluff based on the fact that your opponent 'probably' doesn't have trips. It just so happens that in this hand hero doesn't have those hands and should fold. If you disagree, tell me your plan for the hand when you get X/R on some different board textures. No one has done that yet. Everyone has said call flop and then fold a relatively safe turn or the also relatively blank river.

Some decent insight ITT imo if you can get past the superiority complex

We can call with 89, k8s, and a8 as well. 87 has to be the worst 8 to call with since we block some of bb's semi bluffs.

Could x flop...or AP fold (or shove) river. You have every boat and quads V really can't. 87 is the worst hand you have that gets here this way so I wouldn't mind shoveling it in like 1% of the time.

I like checking back here. Can't go for 3 streets and obv don't like getting raised. I would rather check here and keep in villains entire range than bet to protect and check turn or river.

As played I think flop is mandatory call. Villains value range is super narrow. Would call turn.

River I think you can fold. You will have plenty of better hands to call with.

+1