I feel pretty comfortable folding JJ on a flop in a bloated pot when it looks ugly, but the question is - is it fine to call a 4bet to actually see the flop?

As played, i felt i had no other chance than to just get it in.

And btw. - Is "Running it twice" fine, or do you think it´s just stupid?!


PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 125.4 BB
SB: 66.7 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 94 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP: 102.5 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J J

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, SB calls 8.5 BB, fold, MP raises to 27 BB, Hero calls 18 BB, fold

Flop: (64 BB, 2 players) T 9 7
MP bets 20.1 BB, Hero calls 20.1 BB

Turn: (104.2 BB, 2 players) 8
MP checks, Hero bets 78.3 BB and is all-in, MP calls 55.4 BB and is all-in

River: (215 BB, 2 players) 3
Players agreed to run it twice.

River #2: (215 BB, 2 players) 3

MP shows K A (Flush, Ace High)
Board #1 (Pre 46%, Flop 93%, Turn 98%)
(Flush, Ace High)
Board #2 (Pre 46%, Flop 92%, Turn 98%)

Hero shows J J (Straight, Jack High)
Board #1 (Pre 54%, Flop 7%, Turn 2%)
(Flush, Jack High)
Board #2 (Pre 54%, Flop 8%, Turn 2%)

MP wins 102.7 BB
MP wins 102.6 BB

4bet sizing from MP is Massive! So I don't think you can profitably call and see a flop for set mining purposes.
Best case scenario for you is to flip...
As played, it happens sometimes... This is as good of a board for you as it gets. He had the flush and nothinf you couls do at this point.
Run in twice: play the hand twice.
It does not change anyone's chance of winning. It just decreases the variance.
It is always a good option to run it as much times as possible

Readless I'm flatting JJ pre vs MP and 3-betting more polarized.

And why?

My own thoughts;
- We win the pot often (vs population)... no rake is paid.
- We will get called by AQo+,ATs+,big PP, etc...
- We only getting 4bet by better AA,KK,maybe AK... QQ might even flat. Surely some V's will adjust and 4bet bluff their Ax but I wouldn't worry about that on 10NL.

I do understand that 3betting JJ and then folding to 4bet sucks but isn't it kinda bad approach to the overall gameplan (play medium hand without aggression)?
All I'm saying is that I think flatting JJ vs MP is almost as bad as flatting KQo, readless)

There will be some bluffs as well. So you not only folding good equity vs his value range but sometimes folding best hand.

Villain sometimes flat QQ and pretty rarely some really weak broadway hands so on many boards you found yourself in troubles.

For example you get check/raised on T65ss and villain with draws, sets (mostly TT), QQ and probably some backdoors.

Here again you have an overpair in a 3-bet pot with the initiative but you completely unsure about the strength of your hand.

Pretty tough spot and there will be a lot of them.

Also flatting JJ and probably sometimes QQ/AK pre kinda protecting your calling range against 3-barrels post and squeezes pre.

I think those are some good points! Especially combined with your saying that "readless you flat" ...

My thoughts have been the same old "Isolate him and play a nice holding in position", but just in the moment where he was 4betting i only had the good old "setminer-mentality" with a little bit of poop in my pants

Thanks for your insights!

Pre is standard, getting 2.5:1 on a call even if he has QQ+, AK we are getting the right price.

We should just jam the flop. We have an overpair and lots of draws that help us if we are behind and the SPR is just too low. Our exact hand is a slight favorite vs QQ+, AK on this flop and it puts a hand like QQ without a club in a tough spot.