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NL 2 3bet pot bad turn NL 2 3bet pot bad turn

04-22-2019 , 08:24 AM
Simple question could I have gotten away from this on the turn?

Villain is a reg 28/24/ 3,9 with fold to 3bet of 57%

Hasn't particularilly played back at me in the past from what i remember

    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: $4.01 (200.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): $2.07 (103.5 bb)
    UTG: $2 (100 bb)
    MP: $2.06 (103 bb)
    CO: $2.61 (130.5 bb)
    BTN: $2.04 (102 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with K A
    3 folds, BTN raises to $0.07, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.22, BTN calls $0.15

    Flop: ($0.45) A 6 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.28, BTN calls $0.28

    Turn: ($1.01) 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.64, BTN raises to $1.54 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.90

    River: ($4.09) 8 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $4.09 pot ($0.14 rake)
    Final Board: A 6 9 9 8
    Hero showed K A and lost (-$2.04 net)
    BTN showed T 9 and won $3.95 ($1.91 net)
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 09:10 AM
    as for me, snap call.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 11:08 AM
    ill think you did good by calling the all in
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 04:26 PM
    I call.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 04:41 PM
    On my laptop I wrote in black sharpie “shoves from non maniacs in the micros are the nuts-FOLD”.

    Stacked off behind enough times to not take my own advice. Worse case nice bluff and I don’t want to play for stacks with one pair anyway.

    If they have an aggression factor of 3 or less I fold without hesitation to their shoves. Check raise all in on that turn is either the draw semi bluff or the 9 or better in the micros. The HUD stats will tell me which is which.

    Someone will chime in and say “oh that’s so easy to exploit” and my counter to that is I’m worried about 1 maybe 2% of the whole player pool being competent enough to find exploits. They see 2 things and that is the cards in their hand and the board. I never give anyone in the micros credit until they earned it from 2nl up to 10nl. The strategy is simple and effective in my experience.

    Flip side is you can do the same with your big hands. The fish will call with a pair when you hit your set or whatever. They just see they have top pair. They don't consider what you are shoving with.

    Last edited by Lozgod; 04-22-2019 at 04:55 PM.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 05:50 PM
    Sorry, meant to comment about this specific hand.

    There is one simple question. On the turn jam, what are you beating he would be jamming? Villain folds to 57% of Cbets and he calls yours. You make a pretty big bet on the turn and he wants to get the stacks in. Exploitative fold here. If I am villain and you are betting like you have a strong ace I'm not playing to trap. I'm doing exactly what villain did knowing TPSK isn't going to fold. It's easy money.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 06:01 PM
    Quote:
    Someone will chime in and say “oh that’s so easy to exploit”
    I'll chime in and say you don't seem to know how aggression factor works thus killing your post. Villain can fold 10 rivers in a row and shove 1 and what AF will you see on your HUD?
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-22-2019 , 07:09 PM
    Just jam turn, who's got time for all that.

    To expand, if you're not folding to a jam on one of the worst turn cards, what do you gain from allowing him to choose if the last of the money goes in or not?
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-23-2019 , 09:28 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .isolated
    I'll chime in and say you don't seem to know how aggression factor works thus killing your post. Villain can fold 10 rivers in a row and shove 1 and what AF will you see on your HUD?
    Yeah you need a legit sample size. My fault for assuming that was assumed.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-23-2019 , 09:31 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Yeah you need a legit sample size. My fault for assuming that was assumed.
    That wasn't my point. Did you read my question? Answer it.

    If it helps, pretend I said this instead:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .isolated
    Your opponent folds 1 million times and shoves 1 time. What is his AF?
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-23-2019 , 10:00 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .isolated
    That wasn't my point. Did you read my question? Answer it.

    If it helps, pretend I said this instead:
    It is based on bets and raises vs calls. Bets and raises are aggressive actions and calling is a passive action. So bets+raises are divided by calls to determine the AF.

    Folds won't have any effect on the AF.

    You could trust the number over 1,000,000 hands for sure but the river folds won't affect the number. So you can't answer the question based on the given info.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-23-2019 , 10:22 AM
    Quote:
    It is based on bets and raises vs calls. Bets and raises are aggressive actions and calling is a passive action. So bets+raises are divided by calls to determine the AF.

    Folds won't have any effect on the AF.
    That's my point. It seems like you're not thinking beyond " this stat is calculated like this so this person's aggressive". You're very much misusing the stat (as the overwhelming majority of micro players do). I can't spoon feed this though. Maybe someone else will.

    Quote:
    You could trust the number over 1,000,000 hands for sure but the river folds won't affect the number. So you can't answer the questions based on the given info.
    This tilts me so hard but I'll resist.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-23-2019 , 10:56 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .isolated
    That's my point. It seems like you're not thinking beyond " this stat is calculated like this so this person's aggressive". You're very much misusing the stat (as the overwhelming majority of micro players do). I can't spoon feed this though. Maybe someone else will.
    Part of how I use the stat is what it's intended for. It's to profile a player. It also let's me know a players competence. Most good players aren't stacking off on the turn TPTK vs another competent player. HUD stats can tell me a players competence as a guide but not as an absolute. If someone is playing a reasonable VPIP and theres no huge gap between VPIP and PFR then that's the first of a few signs I'd look for in a competent reg.

    If they have a high AF then I know they are capable of raising and POSSIBLY stacking off wide as far as hand strength. If they have a typical or reasonable (relatively speaking) AF then I have to give them credit in a spot like this.

    As I said previously. Knowing players are hesitant to fold TPTK like in this situation in the micros it is printing money shoving with 3 of a kind or better here. If I shove and get a call I'm tagging this player and shoving any strong hand on the turn and river with an A on the board until they start making exploitative folds.

    Some of the hand analysis for 1/2c and 2/5c makes me laugh. People talk about making these world class nosebleed moves like having balanced 4 bet ranges and 1/3 pot flop bet sizings and all this other stuff. The lowest micro stakes aren't that complicated. It is all exploitative play and exploitative bet sizings. Charge them big to get to showdown when you have the best of it because they'll call, and value bet thin and don't bluff the calling stations. And when it's not some aggro fish maniac shoving and you don't have the nuts then fold.

    That's it. It's ABC 2006 TAG winning poker.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-23-2019 , 11:32 AM
    check the turn
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote
    04-24-2019 , 07:11 AM
    Yes you could, but not with the sizing that you used.

    Would 3 bet larger to ~$0,25 and then bet smaller otf ~$0,17 and then bet around $0,28 ott. Villains will most likely only raise with hands that beat you and call with their FDs, worse Ax hands and some of their pp's.
    NL 2 3bet pot bad turn Quote

          
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