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Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone

08-17-2020 , 01:11 PM
Little background to start. I've been playing poker for fun for 2 years with friends and a little bit on ACR for (micro) tournaments with close to break even results.
I recently made a small deposit ($25) on Ignition after going busto on ACR. I chose to switch over to ignition because when I tried to deposit with a CC on ACR I was flagged by security for some reason, and I don't have bitcoin.
Anyway, I started playing NL5 Zone to start instead of ring games because of the pace and being able to get a decent sample size. I'm getting crushed....lol
Granted, my beatdown (-13.97/100) is only over 3k hands I still feel pretty defeated.

I've timed out in a few big hands and was folded because I wasn't used to no timebank. Does anyone know why they don't offer a timebank? DO they offer one in higher stakes? Seems like an oversight.

I'm finding my problem, or at least the main one of many, is that I can't seem to construct a proper range for my opponents. I can usually seem to see the value of their ranges but can't come up with any bluffs they could have and when the clock is ticking and there is no timebank to rely on i'm completely at a loss. And you would think I would be playing too nitty because of not being able to find bluffs but its at most times the opposite. I start to think everyone is bluffing me and I turn into a station and then when I go over hands after my session in hindsight I see how obvious it was that I should be folding.
Also, when faced with a bet and having to calculate pot odds/equity in 15 seconds I'm fuuuuuucked

Are there any exercises/training I can do to help me with these problems? Should I switch to 6-max ring?
I'm at a loss, and any input would be helpful... Thanks
Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone Quote
08-17-2020 , 01:22 PM
Start by getting your hands on some proper preflop charts. It's much easier to play correctly postflop if you start with correct ranges preflop. I recommend these free charts from Zenith.

For learning how to construct ranges, I recommend practicing on RangeVsRange. This is essentially holdem played with ranges instead of hole cards. It becomes much easier to see where you're going wrong in this format, and it teaches you to think holistically about your strategy.

For reading material you might want to check out the books and publications section. Grinder's Manuel might be a good introduction.
Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone Quote
08-17-2020 , 02:50 PM
Thanks for the reply, I will definitely check out these resources!
Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone Quote
08-17-2020 , 03:58 PM
Zone/fast fold poker has really insane variance

There's a well-known crusher who plays 500z on Stars, who had a ~5bb winrate over 1 million hands (which is very, very good). In that sample he ended up breaking even for almost 400k hands

So if you're a very marginal winner, you could end up breaking even for several months of putting in consistent volume. Easier said than done, but try to remove your focus from how much money you're winning or losing. What's really important is learning and playing the game as much as you can
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08-17-2020 , 04:32 PM
I'd also suggest playing 2 ring tables instead of zone while you are learning. You don't have to worry about timing out and have a break in between hands to think and decompress. Id start adding tables and then move to zone when you are comfortable. Having a sample size is worthless when you can't play your a game.
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08-17-2020 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailashtoreth
I'd also suggest playing 2 ring tables instead of zone while you are learning. You don't have to worry about timing out and have a break in between hands to think and decompress. Id start adding tables and then move to zone when you are comfortable. Having a sample size is worthless when you can't play your a game.
You make a really good point about the sample size being worthless when I can’t play my game.
I plan to try 2 tabling ring tonight when I play my session instead of zone. Just gonna have to lock in and stay focused.

I really appreciate all the input btw
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08-18-2020 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombos21
For learning how to construct ranges, I recommend practicing on RangeVsRange. This is essentially holdem played with ranges instead of hole cards. It becomes much easier to see where you're going wrong in this format, and it teaches you to think holistically about your strategy.
Had never seen this before, had a play and looks really useful. Thanks!
Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone Quote
09-22-2020 , 05:27 PM
I thought it was about time to post an update

I switched from NL5 zone to ring and had some success but ultimately felt I got more respect at NL10.
Currently I am playing NL10 ring about 200 hands a day (only at about 4K hands so far)
I’ve had success over this small sample currently running at like 31bb/100 which I know will drop substantially over a much larger sample size.
Overall I’m at something like 11bb/100 over 9k hands for NL5 and NL10 combined.
Today I played 500 or so hands and got wrecked. I mean, only down like 1.5 buy ins but feel pretty blah about it. I felt like I didn’t have a clue of what I was doing. Didn’t know what flops to bet, didn’t know what hands to continue with, made what I thought were good lay downs only to be shown complete air, made bad calls etc.
When I have days like this I worry I’ve just been a big luckbox and aren’t as decent as I thought I was.
I’ve been focusing more on studying but am at a loss of what areas I should be focusing on.
I’m considering finding a coach to help identify my leaks and help me improve my game. Idk....

Anyways, that’s my update
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09-22-2020 , 06:01 PM
would try to get in zoom volume as early in your play "career" as you can, and use it as a primary learning tool, studying more than playing. If you lose money, you have to consider the fact that if you punt around for a few years dumping thousands in rake and slowly edging your way up the limits, it's costing you a ton more than having a damaged ego (which would actually be beneficial )from dumping some 5nl buyins / getting your mental game solid, putting yourself in a position to more rapidly move up the limits. If I had my own play online to do over again, I would have given myself this advice instead of playing over 200k hands of reg table 6max / ring

winning zoom grinders can step into 6max and ring reg and consistently win, the reverse does not hold as true. there isn't a better format for building foundational game

Last edited by amazin lazer; 09-22-2020 at 06:07 PM.
Newish Player getting crushed at NL5 Zone Quote
09-22-2020 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazin lazer
would try to get in zoom volume as early in your play "career" as you can, and use it as a primary learning tool, studying more than playing. If you lose money, you have to consider the fact that if you punt around for a few years dumping thousands in rake and slowly edging your way up the limits, it's not costing you less than having a damaged ego from dumping some 5nl buyins / getting your mental game solid, putting yourself in a position to more rapidly move up the limits. If I had my own play online to do over again, I would have given myself this advice instead of playing over 200k hands of reg table 6max / ring

winning zoom grinders can step into 6max and ring reg and consistently win, the reverse does not hold as true. there isn't a better format for building foundational game
This. At a single zoom table you can play over 200 hands in an hour. Not sure how long it is taking you to play 200 hands a day at present OP but it is probably a lot longer...so you can put in a lot more volume at zoom and learn faster.
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09-23-2020 , 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theguyonyourleft
This. At a single zoom table you can play over 200 hands in an hour. Not sure how long it is taking you to play 200 hands a day at present OP but it is probably a lot longer...so you can put in a lot more volume at zoom and learn faster.
Zone (on ignition) does not have a timebank. Therefore, you only have 15 seconds to act per decision. Where I am still a relatively new player I need more time for big decisions. Also, the speed of zone tends to make me play more rushed in general causing me to make even worse decisions than I would have if I slowed down.
I'm doing fine at NL10 and feel very comfortable there I just wanna play better than "fine". I guess the main point of my last post was about how to approach studying and what areas to focus on, not about volume.
Also, I 2 table NL10 ring so I play roughly 200 hands per hour. I only play 200 hands per day on days that I've worked which is 5 days a week. I would play more if I could retain my focus and I wasn't so tired but it's hard for me after an 8-10 hour shift.
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10-10-2020 , 05:08 AM
Play regular table is better time to thinking though all spots slow down. It’s about the lone haul not 200 hand an day
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10-11-2020 , 01:45 PM
I feel like I have been learning 2nl on Stars more with ring games than zoom. Idk whats my problem, but I kinda like the ability to study everyone at the table in order to see whos who (using pt4 tho).

Currently doing it with 2 to 3 tables. If I start feeling that I crush 4 ring tables I might start switching each one of them with zoom one by one.

Is that a good approach?
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11-02-2020 , 10:01 PM
I took a little time off from playing to clear my head but I am back with an update.
I recently went back to NL5 Zone after doing some studying. I still feel the time constraints make it hard for me to play to my best ability but I'm doing my best. I felt I was playing far too aggressive and punty before so I've worked in some passivity into my game.
I took a few shots at NL25 zone (only because Ignition doesnt have NL10 zone) and did alright for a while but my bankroll wasn't really able to handle the swings...
The part of my graph where it really peaks then drops then peaks then drops is when I was playing NL25
I'm gonna keep grinding and hopefully keep my head above water. Gonna really look into coaching in the near future.

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