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Old 05-08-2021, 08:32 PM   #1
newguyhere
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Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.50(BB)
HERO ($53.91)
SB ($49.50) [VPIP: 28.6% | PFR: 23.8% | AGG: 25% | Hands: 21]
BB ($54.37) [VPIP: 16.1% | PFR: 16.1% | AGG: 66.7% | Hands: 31]
UTG ($60.35) [VPIP: 66.7% | PFR: 66.7% | AGG: 80% | Hands: 4]
HJ ($123.14) [VPIP: 25.8% | PFR: 9.7% | AGG: 23.1% | Hands: 31]
CO ($61.48) [VPIP: 40% | PFR: 30% | AGG: 25% | Hands: 31]

Dealt to Hero: A K

UTG Raises To $1.50, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $4.50, SB Folds, BB Folds, UTG Calls $3

Hero SPR on Flop: [5.07 effective]
Flop ($9.75): K T 2
UTG Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($9.75): K T 2 T
UTG Bets $2 (Rem. Stack: $53.85), HERO Calls $2 (Rem. Stack: $47.41)

River ($13.75): K T 2 T 9
UTG Bets $13.07 (Rem. Stack: $40.78), HERO
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Old 05-08-2021, 08:56 PM   #2
Dejavudu666
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Hero's line seems quite theoretically sound. Not everyone finds the small sizing on the paired turn (esp on mono board)

That being said it's quite intuitive to probe lots of FD's OTT and then fire river. Range composition will play quite a vital role in if he's under/over doing it wrt how many oS combos he has to play this way

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Old 05-09-2021, 03:41 AM   #3
Ramius
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

fish try to induce turn raise with nuts then after failure valuebets those nuts properly on river, question is what is nuts for this player
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Old 05-09-2021, 04:23 AM   #4
Iblis
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

It could be a well balanced line for what we know.
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:05 AM   #5
LovemyAK
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
fish try to induce turn raise with nuts then after failure valuebets those nuts properly on river, question is what is nuts for this player
+1
This is mostly nuted hand.
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:15 AM   #6
Ramius
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

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Originally Posted by Iblis View Post
It could be a well balanced line for what we know.
IMO No, there is no reasonable calling range oop for UTG to have midding valuehands that want to "block bet" turn and then bet pot on blank river, it's just fish line with either random crap he should not call pre or random strong flush/boat
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Old 05-09-2021, 06:24 AM   #7
ionutd
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

I feel like you can go pretty nuts cbetting small here
might be range cb for 20-25%p
river he's just repping nut flushes and boats for that sizing and ye he has the chance to over do it with AQ/AJ/some random pair
normally I'd fold, don't really need to defend combos w/o a club or at least a straight blocker
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:01 AM   #8
ZKesic
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

He's repping mainly 99, QJs and some flushes. In my experience this line is very value heavy. How fast did he bet the river?
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:07 AM   #9
pjj
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Here, as the obvious bluffs are AQo and AJo with a club, and we don't know how often villain is calling the 3bet with AJo, I'd say either villain is creative with his bluffs, or the line is value heavy, as they can have a lot of flushes, KTs, T9s, or QJs. You even block some of the bluffs.
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Old 05-09-2021, 09:31 AM   #10
newguyhere
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKesic View Post
He's repping mainly 99, QJs and some flushes. In my experience this line is very value heavy. How fast did he bet the river?
Fairly quickly
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Old 05-09-2021, 10:02 AM   #11
YanasaurBBQ
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

I'd say it's value heavy. I would cbet small on this board and check weaker K hands.
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Old 05-09-2021, 01:07 PM   #12
I_lose
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

As Iím learning theory and hand analysis, I donít understand the flop check. Which doesnít mean itís wrong, just that it seems like a value/protection bet to me. As played, i def like the turn call. As for your specific question: this seems like more of a value line to me, especially since, as was said before, we block two of the most obvious bluffing candidates for V.

MDF says we need to defend 1/2 the time here and I just donít think TPTK is in the top half of our range here (nor near enough the bottom to consider turning it into a bluff.) I think all things considered, this is a fold.

If anyone is willing to explain the flop check to me, Iím sure thereís something Iím missing and would love to understand it better.


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Old 05-09-2021, 06:24 PM   #13
newguyhere
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose View Post
As Iím learning theory and hand analysis, I donít understand the flop check. Which doesnít mean itís wrong, just that it seems like a value/protection bet to me. As played, i def like the turn call. As for your specific question: this seems like more of a value line to me, especially since, as was said before, we block two of the most obvious bluffing candidates for V.

MDF says we need to defend 1/2 the time here and I just donít think TPTK is in the top half of our range here (nor near enough the bottom to consider turning it into a bluff.) I think all things considered, this is a fold.

If anyone is willing to explain the flop check to me, Iím sure thereís something Iím missing and would love to understand it better.


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Flop is a range bet for small.

My mistake.
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Old 05-09-2021, 06:30 PM   #14
I_lose
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

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Originally Posted by newguyhere View Post
Flop is a range bet for small.

My mistake.

So youíre saying hero should bet their whole range a small fraction of the pot OTF?


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Old 05-09-2021, 06:44 PM   #15
newguyhere
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose View Post
So youíre saying hero should bet their whole range a small fraction of the pot OTF?


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Correct. I actually thought it was because the ranges I have don't include any SC's in UTGs range. But even I solved with UTG raise/calling 3bet with SC's, it still has the BTN betting small at like 90% frequency.

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Old 05-09-2021, 06:48 PM   #16
I_lose
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Thank you for the response. Would you think something like 1/3pot at full range OTF?


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Old 05-09-2021, 07:40 PM   #17
2021shipit
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

[QUOTE=I_lose;57086950]
MDF says we need to defend 1/2 the time here and I just donít think TPTK is in the top half of our range here (nor near enough the bottom to consider turning it into a bluff.) I think all things considered, this is a fold.

/QUOTE]

Erase MDF from your poker vocab. It's a pretty useless concept.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:42 PM   #18
I_lose
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

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Originally Posted by 2021shipit View Post
Erase MDF from your poker vocab. It's a pretty useless concept.
Why do you say that?


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Old 05-09-2021, 07:50 PM   #19
2021shipit
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose View Post
Why do you say that?


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It doesn't account for range imbalances.. set up a toy game in the solver where the IP player only has the nut low and and OOP only has the nuts, MDF obviously doesn't exist there, because of the range imbalance.

Same as in practice, it might be a rough guideline but generally I would just forget about it and focus more on the properties of a hand for a bluffcatch. Anyway, MDF only dictates a % of range to call, not what hands as hand strength isn't super important when bluffcatching.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:52 PM   #20
I_lose
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Re: Is this line more value heavy or bluff heavy?

Interesting. Thank you for the response. Itís something to research and think about.


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