I decided to try different line today with my KK. I used a check raise line. Bad play?

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)
HERO ($4.4)
BB ($5.02)
UTG ($2.8)
HJ ($5.43)
CO ($5.64)
BTN ($4.93)

Dealt to Hero Kh Ks

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $0.1 (Rem. Stack: 5.33), CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Raises To $0.35 (Rem. Stack: 4.05), BB Calls $0.3 (Rem. Stack: 4.67), HJ Folds

Flop ($0.80) Ad Jc 6c
HERO Checks, BB Bets $1.25 (Rem. Stack: 3.42), HERO Raises To $4.05 (allin)

Are you check/shoving for value or bluff?

Never doing this in this spot. All better hands call....all worse hands fold. Simple check/fold.

To answer NormaJeane, it seems like you're check/shoving for a bluff. I don't see how this could be a bet for value as any call would be an Ax or a set, possibly pocket Jacks...

I agree with the check on the flop though, however, for me, it would seem like a check/fold.

I just wanted to know OP's reasoning with his line

.40 pre and just xf flop. Turning KK into a bluff is just out of anger that an A fell otf.

My thinking here is maybe I get called by KJ, QJ,JT, TT-77. I realize I am crushed by any Ax combo which he probably has anywhere from AJ-A2 in his range.

Point taken, this is a horrible play long term although I may get a way with it from time to time.

I don't like it at all and don't really understand how it's going to accomplish what you want it to unless our opponent is really bad.

Easy check/call or check/fold depending on your SB 3bet frequency and your opponent's tendencies.

It's a stretch. Maybe for free chips you'll get called by worse. Most of the hands you mentioned are not in V's range, or at least they shouldn't be, imo. Would you call a x shove with those hands? Would you even have them as the BB facing a 3b from the sb?

I agree with what your saying. It certainly sounds like a stretch but at these stakes it surprises me what I get called with sometimes.

He actually calls me here and shows up with QhTh. He then runs out a 9 ott and 8 otr and hits the straight.

But I also realize, that I can't assume I am getting calls like this the majority of the time.

So everyone ith played it pretty badly then, lol. Stay playing in those games and learn a decent solid strat and you'll crush. Also, if you can auto rebuy to 100BB, do that.

Can some one tell me what our value x/c range is on the flop? I see soooo many posts where people just see an A with KK or a K with QQ and instantly go let me x/c or x/f.

This may be barely plus ev at the micros but if people catch on you are going to get r***d. I think we are going to be cbetting this word with like all our range so just a small stab is really the easiest way to play the hand.

You would be surprised at how many hands you will win here just cuz opponent peels one off with TT or J9 and then checks back turn. Giving you a chance to value bet river thin.

It's fine to be polarized here as long as we're balancing our c/c range with strong hands that will c/c 3 streets like AA and TPGK type hands.

It's also fine to bet our whole range here since we have range advantage. The main thing is, we should be balanced.

I would xc KK to a normal size bet along with some weaker Ax hands. This V overbet the pot though...

Also, why would we want to build an even bigger pot with 2nd pair, esp OOP?

You are insta capping your range here at say A9 max if u are always c/c weak acesand kk. It may work at micros but it will become a habit where you stop betting a hand worse than top pair. I really think if you want to C/c some of the time that is fine. We can use all kk with the king of clubs.

Classic case of "I'm scared to get bluffed off of kings". I am a sucker for that line of thinking on a A high flop.

I see no value in check/raising the flop, we are essentially turning a semi-decent holding into a bluff. This is not necessary, i don't mind b/f or c/c and re-assessing on the turn. Situations like these sucks but it really depends on history with villain.

Why does it matter if we're capped? We're going to have to call down some of our AX stuff, but we can pretty easily do that since we block him having an Ace and we assume he has a bluffing range. Checking with an Ace and calling down is pretty good to get value from worse, and it's more likely he has bluffs because of your blocker. I agree that I'm x/c here usually, but not to a 1.5x pot bet. I'm just going to continue with some AX and show it down at that point, hoping he's bluffing.

Also, not sure we're value betting our top end here. Sets and AJ are pretty damn good to check, so we might actually be capped harder when we bet than when we check. If that's the case, we're actually polarized in our checking range and we're probably just continuing with our weaker AX and comfortably x/f with our non-ace pairs. Kc might be one of the better x/r bluffing cards here too.

This line makes much more sense. The slight issue is that in this particular hand we are in SB against HJ open. So 99%of our range is going to be 3bet, so I just hope we are not x/f a lot of hands with good equity.

Also I like to overbet when checked to in a 3bet pot but that's just me.

All in all I like your reasoning behind the line and I will use it sometimes and see how it works. Gf

Sorry but I changed my mind (going to get flamed for this)
If you check AA and AJ you are giving opponent infinite odds to catch up with some random air. I mean he's not going to bet 77 or qt when checked to.

When you don't have AA in your flop betting range your best hand is AK and AQ and you have tons of bluffs. If opponent raises us on the flop suddenly we are in world of pain. We know that AQ is now the top of our range but we don't know if opponent knows this so we have to level into idk what.

If you take a line which let's opponent know basically what you have then it's a losing line because he can play perfect. It's a very tough spot to split your range in the way you mentioned because we are checking the nuts and betting hands weaker...