KJ flopped 2P to check/raise on AKJr 4way - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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KJ flopped 2P to check/raise on AKJr 4way

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04-21-2018 , 08:56 PM

goldFishshark

grinder

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 402

50nl, 100bb eff all stacks involved

We OR KJo to $1.50 from MP get called by BTN, SB, and BB.

Flop ($6.00) AKJr
Check, check
Hero bets $4
BTN folds, SB folds, BB raises to $11
Hero?

Villain will almost never have AA, KK, or AK (maybe JJ)... and we even block AK, KK, JJ, and AJ... so villain's range consists of... Q10, and pretty much only Q10 and the weirdly played hands that are ahead of KJ? Seems a little bizarre here.. but can we actually just fold the flop?

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04-21-2018 , 09:59 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

QT is 16 combos

Folding flop is alright 3way

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04-21-2018 , 10:25 PM

goldFishshark

grinder

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 402

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04-21-2018 , 10:41 PM

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

Folding flop is alright 3way

What about when it's 4 ways (as it is here)?

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04-22-2018 , 12:09 AM

goldFishshark

grinder

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 402

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

What about when it's 4 ways (as it is here)?

Fold pre?

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04-22-2018 , 03:38 AM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

What about when it's 4 ways (as it is here)?

then folding should be gud

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04-22-2018 , 07:08 AM

12345543

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 81

Wouldn't QT just call on the rainbow flop?

And yeah i dont think folding here 4 ways is bad.

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04-22-2018 , 07:26 AM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12345543

Wouldn't QT just call on the rainbow flop?

Who knows. Doesn't matter though

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04-22-2018 , 11:34 AM

goldFishshark

grinder

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 402

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12345543

Wouldn't QT just call on the rainbow flop?

And yeah i dont think folding here 4 ways is bad.

Yes, villain was unknown at this point, but is clearly a fish. I don't really see the merit of check raising many hands on this board.. could be wrong though.

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04-22-2018 , 09:07 PM

#10

poloplaya1414

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,972

Feels weak here to fold. I know it's 4 ways but I assume we're betting plenty of worse hands like Ax here. If we fold KJ, BB can bluff here pretty frequently, and it would be a pretty good play with something like JT, QJ, KT knowing that they block straights and sets.

I probably peel one street here getting pretty good odds to do so and see what happens on turn. Helps that we still 4 live outs against QT.

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04-23-2018 , 01:26 AM

#11

EdNealy

adept

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 701

I think w/o reads I fold here. I think BB is usually going to just call w/JT, QJ, KT.

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04-23-2018 , 10:25 AM

#12

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldFishshark

Fold pre?

I would.

There are reasons QT would raise otf 4 way.

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04-23-2018 , 11:21 AM

#13

poloplaya1414

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,972

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdNealy

I think w/o reads I fold here. I think BB is usually going to just call w/JT, QJ, KT.

Are we ever bluffing here 4 ways? If we're not, x/calling those hands is pretty bad for villain. Do we ever expect to showdown JT and win unimproved? I don't think so.

So I think x/raising those hands is clearly better than x/calling.

Although of course, just because it's bad doesn't mean villain won't do it. So I guess my answer is that it depends on reads.

If we think villain is bad and calls down too much, I'd fold here. If we think he's good and aggressive, I'd peel.

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04-23-2018 , 11:29 AM

#14

BPMaR

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 486

I would call flop because if BB is unknown he may also have AQ,AT, KJ like you and would fold to the turn bet
Hero is in position he may be more scared of QT, AK, AJ if he also has KJ, or just AQ. and decide to check it down all the way to showdown.

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04-23-2018 , 01:16 PM

#15

EdNealy

adept

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 701

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldFishshark

Yes, villain was unknown at this point, but is clearly a fish. I don't really see the merit of check raising many hands on this board.. could be wrong though.

I see fish call from oop when they are not getting the implied odds often enough. One of many ways that makes them fish.

Btw, I think it's a common mistake (and something I've done plenty of times myself) to transpose how I think onto how I think Villain thinks.

Btw OP, what info do you have indicating they are a fish? I think it's so important to establish some of their tendencies so we can plan ahead of how to outplay them. Maniac fish is different than a fish that plays too wide pre and only shows aggression when they have the nuts.

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