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Is this jam too spewy? Is this jam too spewy?

06-22-2021 , 09:48 AM
Apart for QQ which I think 4! pre at 50% freq I should be up against a draw here with the raise from V on the flop and am ahead. AA, 88, 44 not in range IMHO. Thoughts?

Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 197.88 BB
BTN: 99 BB
SB: 123.96 BB
BB: 104.04 BB
UTG: 100.4 BB
MP: 160.24 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K K

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 12.4 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 9.4 BB

Flop: (26.2 BB, 2 players) 8 Q 4
UTG checks, Hero bets 12.48 BB, UTG raises to 49.88 BB, Hero raises to 185.48 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 38.12 BB and is all-in
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 11:55 AM
Preflop you went too big. 9bb or 8.5 is the sizing. What is your 3b range here?

Postflop is standard and there is nothin to say other than wp. Its better to jam without Kd as you want your opponent to have a bluff but you jam KK no matter the suits. Just something to consider in general.
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 11:58 AM
In all fairness, Vs a UTG open, your 3bet sizing should probably get folds out of 88 and 44. However, I think QQ is pretty reasonable, again due to size and 3bet being Vs UTG. I wouldn't even rule out AA Vs that sizing. If UTG is a thinking player, they must realise that AQ doesn't warrant a raise, but then again, they must also realise that their sizing isn't great (to me at least). Effectively, they have to call a jam even with their FD, so why not just jam.

In any case, don't think you can fold, just because of the poor sizing, they may turn up with random nonsense, and you could also beat an AQ type hand. But, if villain makes a raise that commits them to going all-in, they will tend to be skewed towards value, as if you're going to call an all-in with a bluff, you might as well go all-in yourself and maximise that fold equity.
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozzek
Preflop you went too big. 9bb or 8.5 is the sizing.
Respectfully disagree - I'm generally going 4x IP and 5x OOP when 3 betting.
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjj
In all fairness, Vs a UTG open, your 3bet sizing should probably get folds out of 88 and 44. However, I think QQ is pretty reasonable, again due to size and 3bet being Vs UTG. I wouldn't even rule out AA Vs that sizing. If UTG is a thinking player, they must realise that AQ doesn't warrant a raise, but then again, they must also realise that their sizing isn't great (to me at least). Effectively, they have to call a jam even with their FD, so why not just jam.

In any case, don't think you can fold, just because of the poor sizing, they may turn up with random nonsense, and you could also beat an AQ type hand. But, if villain makes a raise that commits them to going all-in, they will tend to be skewed towards value, as if you're going to call an all-in with a bluff, you might as well go all-in yourself and maximise that fold equity.
Only AQ that I think would raise here is AdQd.

You make a really good point about their sizing given what they have left behind and they should have just jammed. I think weaker players with medium strength holdings will make bets like this and would bet larger/jam with stronger holdings. You are right though he did have decent equity here despite not being nutted.

V had Td8d here and called the jam. IMHO from UTG this hand should have been a fold pre and then a fold to the 3!. With the pair + the FD (as opposed the just the FD like AdJd) Hero was not as far ahead as he would have liked but luckily held for the scoop.
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 12:43 PM
Turn: (202.2 BB, 2 players) Q

River: (202.2 BB, 2 players) T

Hero shows K K (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 79%, Flop 49%, Turn 77%)
UTG shows 8 T (Two Pair, Queens and Tens)
(Pre 21%, Flop 51%, Turn 23%)
Hero wins 194.2 BB
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula
Only AQ that I think would raise here is AdQd.

You make a really good point about their sizing given what they have left behind and they should have just jammed. I think weaker players with medium strength holdings will make bets like this and would bet larger/jam with stronger holdings. You are right though he did have decent equity here despite not being nutted.

V had Td8d here and called the jam. IMHO from UTG this hand should have been a fold pre and then a fold to the 3!. With the pair + the FD (as opposed the just the FD like AdJd) Hero was not as far ahead as he would have liked but luckily held for the scoop.
I think raising AQ (AdQd isn't possible) here would be a mistake from villain, and if 88/44 aren't in range (but given what is, maybe assuming they're not might be a mistake), I think raising in general is (although it might not be bad to jam with combo draws in isolation, they really shouldn't be getting here with many of those at all).

Maybe you're right about weaker players would jam with stronger hands. Maybe it is one of those situations that depends on the villain. In any case, although this hand (if in range) is actually a decent hand to be jamming with, it is still going into the random nonsense category for me. As you say, they probably shouldn't be opening this UTG for 3bb, and shouldn't be calling vs a 4x 3bet.
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-22-2021 , 07:38 PM
I'd expect population to only be check raising sets and big draws here. We don't block the latter, which makes me feel reasonably good about getting this in. 44 shouldn't be a thing, but you can never be sure about a lot of combos. It's clear a lot of villains don't strictly follow preflop charts, so we need to be careful here e.g. I expect population not to be randomising qq here and often flatting pre.
Is this jam too spewy? Quote
06-24-2021 , 07:30 AM
I mean, you can disagree but its a bad sizing. Thats why I asked about your range construction, maybe you compensate the suboptimal sizing by constructing well your range. But then again, he called T8 vs huge 3b, so its a kinda nice exploit. But you didnt mention he was that big of a fish...
Is this jam too spewy? Quote

      
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