J9s: River Spew - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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J9s: River Spew

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02-21-2018 , 01:11 PM

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

I hate my river play as I should have zero fold equity, but I am still curious what others think about the rest of the hand. Comments on all streets welcome.

Villiain is 38/21.8 with a 6.1 3! over about 75 hands. WTSD 32/67.

[converted_hand][hand_history]WPN, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.18 (101.8 bb)
BB: $14.95 (149.5 bb)
MP: $10.39 (103.9 bb)
Hero (CO): $13.89 (138.9 bb)
BTN: $10.15 (101.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J

MP folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $0.82, BB folds, Hero calls $0.52

Flop: ($1.74) A

(2 players)
SB bets $0.68, Hero raises to $1.36, SB calls $0.68

Turn: ($4.46) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.85, SB calls $2.85

River: ($10.16) 6

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.86 and is all-in,

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02-21-2018 , 01:25 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

ofc you have fe.. and don't bluff with negative blockers

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02-21-2018 , 01:26 PM

JamesBJames

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,791

I usually call these flops and elect to not have a raising range because villain has ridiculous range advantage. Plus we're in position in a 3-bet pot 100BB deep so if we ever have something that wants to get it in, we can get it in over three streets.

Would check back turn as played since we have a tiny amount of SDV.

Not sure about what to do OTR because I'd play the hand differently twice at this point. I'm not thrilled about bluffing clubs OTR, but I'm not sure we have any other bluffs to work with. Also partially why raising flop makes things really weird.

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02-21-2018 , 01:50 PM

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

ofc you have fe.. and don't bluff with negative blockers

Can you clarify what you mean by negative blockers? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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02-21-2018 , 01:59 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

you block 9cXc and other fd's as well as AJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBJames

I usually call these flops and elect to not have a raising range because villain has ridiculous range advantage.

we need a raising range vs 1/3 pot

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02-21-2018 , 01:59 PM

CC96

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 358

Quote:

Originally Posted by antneye

Can you clarify what you mean by negative blockers? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Basically blockers of hands that would fold on this river. In your case you hold two clubs so villain has less chance of a flush draw.

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02-21-2018 , 02:18 PM

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC96

Basically blockers of hands that would fold on this river. In your case you hold two clubs so villain has less chance of a flush draw.

That makes a ton of sense. Thanks!

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02-21-2018 , 02:32 PM

ChipsNcrisps

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4,946

dont raise flop

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02-21-2018 , 02:45 PM

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

we need a raising range vs 1/3 pot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps

dont raise flop

Reasoning?

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02-21-2018 , 03:36 PM

#10

ChipsNcrisps

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4,946

while we should have a raising range vs 1/3psb, if sb is good he has a clear 3bet spot which puts hands like this in a horrible spot - so i think we should be raising complete air or a hand willing to stack off like JQcc.

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02-21-2018 , 04:29 PM

#11

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Im curious why we need a raising range against this size. That sounds really interesting. Could you guys elaborate on that?

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02-21-2018 , 05:26 PM

#12

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps

as well as some middle strength hands, villain can't 3bet too frequently assuming he bets very often
I think we need to raise wider than just a completely polarized range

edit : well actually I checked pio and it almost never raises

Last edited by Ojune; 02-21-2018 at 05:48 PM.

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02-21-2018 , 07:26 PM

#13

Gerwazy

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

edit : well actually I checked pio and it almost never raises

Not very surprising. What are you representing by raising the flop? Slowplayed AA which decided not to slowplay anymore because of a flush draw?

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02-21-2018 , 10:02 PM

#14

FGCUrounder

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 37

I don't hate having a raising range on this flop. we can get 99-QQ to fold on later streets but with an ace wouldn't we check turn with showdown value? if so to rep it we should check back right? double barreling is folding out KQs KJs? are we triple barreling an ace that isn't two pair? also what value hands are you x/r this flop with? 66? AK that flatted the 3bet? also when you do make your flush aren't we killing some of our value since we are already repping a strong hand so hell have to be very strong to call. in which case were in trouble when the flush doesn't hit

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02-22-2018 , 01:29 AM

#15

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Dont get that we ''need raising range OTF'' (with this board texture)..

It includes A and K, which hits better for our opponents range. That being said, I think u need to be slowplaying some AK,AA,KK in order to raise in this spot (which I think u wont).

Whats the benefit in raising?
Isn't it just much more easier to play if we call 100% our range IP?

Whole antoher story on a board texture like 679ss ...

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02-22-2018 , 01:33 AM

#16

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Intuitively I know not to raise these flops because range vs range garbage but...I can never help myself with a bunch of hands that have any kind of equity because we're getting such a good price to bluff

.

/random thoughts

edit:

Quote:

Im curious why we need a raising range against this size. That sounds really interesting. Could you guys elaborate on that?

I'm going to assume it's because of what I said above. The smaller someone bets > the smaller our raise needs to be > our bluffs don't need to work as often

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02-22-2018 , 01:59 AM

#17

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerwazy

Not very surprising. What are you representing by raising the flop? Slowplayed AA which decided not to slowplay anymore because of a flush draw?

AQ?

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02-22-2018 , 12:27 PM

#18

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

Great feedback guys. I really butchered this hand from start to finish. I've got some things to work on in terms of identifying proper board textures to raise, and what I am representing based on my chosen lines.

As bad as I butchered the flop and turn I really should have had the discipline to give up on the river.

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02-22-2018 , 01:12 PM

#19

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

I generally don't raise flops with FDs when the NFD blocker is otf. You can't really rep many strong hands unless you flat AK. Maybe 2 combos of A6s if you flat those or 66, but, I don't most of the time.

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