PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 259.5 BB (VPIP: 32.56, PFR: 2.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 43)
UTG: 105.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
UTG+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 35.81, PFR: 27.35, 3Bet Preflop: 6.31, Hands: 369)
Hero (MP): 268.5 BB
CO: 212 BB (VPIP: 65.52, PFR: 10.34, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 30)
BTN: 172.5 BB (VPIP: 43.75, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
SB: 89 BB (VPIP: 18.52, PFR: 13.58, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 81)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 31.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 22.5 BB

Flop: (67.5 BB, 2 players) 6 3 7
Hero bets 30 BB, BTN calls 30 BB

Turn: (127.5 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero bets 44 BB, BTN calls 44 BB

River: (215.5 BB, 2 players) J
Hero bets 163 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 67 BB and is all-in

Hero shows K K (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 66%, Flop 53%, Turn 69%)
BTN shows K A (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 34%, Flop 47%, Turn 31%)
BTN wins 337.5 BB

My first time posting here, I wanted to know peoples thoughts on this hand. Don't know if if this is correct way to post please advise. Thoughts welcome not only on hero play but also did villain do the right/wrong thing. I think I mess up river but I think his turn call is suspect... Correct?

4bet is really big i think
i d bet bigger all streets

if you leave results out you get better advice
check the turn, c/c a small bet, c/f to a big bet
check river, everything gets there, c/f

isnt 4bet huge?

given that btn is a fish ip, and they're 170 deep, I think it's perfect

c/f river

Why do you think his turn call is suspect?

It's fine but sizing isn't really on point, if you want to go 3 streets you should start with a smaller flop bet. As played just shove turn.

Yeah, size for either two or three streets, don't get into the habit of 1/4 pot shoves on the river and such.

If I ever fold two overs and the nut flush draw in position to a small bet like that, please shoot me. Folding the turn would be beyond terrible.

I think I prefer checking the turn with KK (possibly to check-jam, depending on what villain does). Jamming river is bad. You're just value-cutting yourself there. He should only call with flushes, straights and sets.

we're not value-cutting ourselves, look at the 4bet size

besides we can shove with way less than 50% when called

C/f river with an overpair in a 4-bet, 215BB pot, for 67BBs? No way.

Against this villain OP I just bet bigger on flop and shove turn.

4 bet smaller pre. AP shove on the turn, it's around 210 bbs to a pot of 140bbs.

Hiya, thanks everyone... SO let me get this right, 4 Bet is too big... For Kings against massive fish..? And bet so that it's all in earlier or at least a better size on river. He should call Turn... Villain is 70/30 off on turn... but okay. So in same position I do same from now on? seems risky.

I make small bet because I don't want villain to fold... Sizing is to get worse to call and I can just fold if he raises me Flop or Turn, I think my river is beyond bad. I should check/call, he too big fish, if my bets were smaller and pot not so big then check/fold river. As played I only get called by better now.

This is what I should take away, no?

What 4-Bet size?

Your 4bet size pre is perfectly fine, people are levelling themselves into thinking about strategy for tougher games against tougher people. I'd argue you can make it even bigger but this is fine.

You should bet the flop much bigger and shove (<pot sized) the turn. Not a good line against a thinking competent player playing higher but I really struggle to think of a better line against a player like this.

Villain is never folding on this flop to a larger bet with any piece, i.e. any overpair. Your overpair figures to be better than his. He's also not folding a FD, so make him pay for it.

You can't really fold to a flop raise with that sizing as you're inducing a bluff raise.

4-bet size not a huge issue.

Re the turn call from villain, as Arty said above, it would be a huge mistake to consider folding here. I’d recommend reading about some of the basic concepts such as pot odds, calculating equity against a range of hands, and implied odds to see why this is. Not trying to patronise you here, but the fact you’re questioning villain’s turn call shows you need to learn/refresh some basic stuff before worrying about 4 bet sizings.

Why do you think this is true? How exactly does seeing the results cause one to give "worse" advice? I don't think any of you can defend this position intellectually. This popular opinion is just a result of groupthink that has no basis in reality.

People look at the results and then give advice they think is the optimal way to play against the hand. Or use it to justify their own ridiculous stuff because villain had xx so ...

The hand should be played with exactly as much information as hero had bar maybe good pop reads.

Because you’re supposed to be playing a range of hands identically in any given scenario

It's definitely better and was basically a rule on the boards before, if you posted results you got told off and a suggestion to go post in BBV. Posting results obviously promotes results based thinking and how to avoid/justify the result, instead of EV based thinking, which is bad and very easy for human brains. You're not suggesting that everyone is so disciplined and superior that results have no effect on their analysis of the hand are you?

Yeah, no way seeing the actual hand villain holds could affect anyone's impartiality.

Silly groupthinkers.

It's actually a very good question.

[QUOTE=wonkydonk; I’d recommend reading about some of the basic concepts such as pot odds, calculating equity against a range of hands, and implied odds. [/QUOTE]

I will certainly look these three things up, any recommended resources. I want to improve...