What are your thoughts on cold calling when facing an open and 3bet?

I usually just play 4bet or fold, including folding hands like TT and JJ.

Would you cold 4bet bluff ever? Do you think it is okay to cold call some hands? How much does your strategy depend on the player you're facing and the size of the 3bet? Would you cold call more vs someone you think is 3betting an open light more often?

General Thoughts?

No, against some1 like that you want to cold4b more often to deny equity vs the first raiser and get value. Cold calling that player type will be burning money because you will face a lot of 4bets from other players.

the only way i can see cold calling being a thing is when the 3 bettor is super tight/passive and pretty much only 3 betting KK+. At the same time you want the first raiser to be aware of that and the 3b should not be too big.
so if a reg opens and the tight/passive weaker player 3 bets to a reasonable small size you can maybe cold call trying to setmine. the reg who raised first in cant do much about it. he has to 4b super tight because he is up vs kk+. But if the first raiser is some goofy play who may Jam AK or 77 preflop you are just burning money because you really can not afford to cold call and then not the a flop.

I guess stack depths are going to be important. A standard 100bb stack shouldn't be doing much cold calling

100bb eff:
I cold 4bet regularly from BB, BTN, SB (in order of freq)
I cold call this spot only in BB with TT, JJ

at BTN - I even cold 4bet A5s, 65s (polarized )

caveats:
beware of trappy nits who will flat QQ-AA in these spots

i dont think stack depths has much to do with it.

Certainly does. If our opener is a fish & 200bb deep who opens wide and flats a lot, our nit 3-bettor is 150bb and we're covering.

We can flat wider.

what you flat and what you 3b/4b will change significantly based on

pfr,flatter, your position, their stacks and your stacks

wow. Certainly. Very interesting.

but no. in that example you could have a 3b cold calling range because player 1 pretty much never 4bets and player 2 is a nitty 3 bettor. not because players are deep. just being deeper would not make cold calling 3bets more attractive.

yes, but IF i flat will never depend on stack size. As a Default there is no such thing as cold calling a 3bet.

thats a different thing
what i meant was I have seen snowie scenarios ranges differ widely

I think definitely stack depth plays into it.

Stack depths doesn't matter, points out how it does, oh it does, oh wait no it doesn't...

Of course stacks matter. We want to play deep poker vs others, we should have the edge.

100BB Deep, I'm folding A4s against an open and 3b

300BB Deep. Let me see that flop.


As far as 4bet bluffing. Probably fine against the right players. I would think hands with blockers are best. KQo, AJo

Unbelievable

Zuko is right - Stack sizes does not matter in poker - NEVER!

Also position is totally overrated in poker - POSITION DOES ALSO NOT MATTER IN POKER - NEVER

lol at "stack sizes does not matter"

Stack depth matters, yes.

But I'm never calling A4s vs an open and a 3bet and I think that is horrible. I wouldn't cold call that at 100bb and not at 1500bb.

nit

Seriously?

Do you realize how deep 1500bb is? Along with power of position. We should be looking to play a lot of hands.

Now baby Axs isn't our ideal hands but we're not going to be upset with it either.

I'm posting this as its own thread.


I'll accept I am wrong if the majority of people disagree with people.

It's crazy to say stack size doesn't matter.

I also would rarely cold call in any situation, but they do occur sometimes. To go back to OP's questions.

Yes, of course I would cold 4 bet bluff, you shouldn't "never bluff" in situations where your opponents are bluffing regularly, i.e. 3 betting.

I would only ever cold call a light 3 better if the original raiser is a whale. If the original raiser is in anyway sensible they may also know the 3 better 3 bets light, and by calling you just set them up for an easy profitable 4 bet.

thank you. i know i am right. but i think you didnt read very careful what i said.
or maybe it is because we speak different language. so i make it very easy for you.

" Positon and Stack size do matter in Poker !!! "


the deeper you get, the wider you open preflop, the wider you 3 bet and the wider you 4bet. what you dont do unless you try being a goldfish is cold calling 3bets.

You yourself gave an example where you could possibly cold call to set mine. Are you saying that setmining in that situation isn't more profitable if you are deeper?

Trivial proof that stack depth matters on the decision of whether or not to flat or four-bet:

Hero has 25 bb. V1 opens to 3bb and V2 3-bets to 9bb.

To flat here means committing more than a third of our stack. We should shove our entire playing range (which should be snug).

Now: same action, effective stack size is 5000bb. We are pretty much getting a price to play any hand that has nut potential. Big pairs kind of suck. Even flopped sets are vulnerable. Suited connectors and suited aces are monsters. We are going to be flatting a lot.

Ever watch Garrett or Andy on Live at the Bike?

Another way to think about it:

Cold-calling a 3-bet is generally a massive deviation from optimal play. If other players involved in the hand are deviating significantly, and it doesn't have to be massively in particular ways, then flatting the 3-bet is an effective exploitative play.