How bad is this line with Jacks? 10NL - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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How bad is this line with Jacks? 10NL

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12-12-2018 , 01:32 AM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Villain just sat down so no stats

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
CO ($22.09) [VPIP: 24.3% | PFR: 18.7% | AGG: 40.3% | 3-Bet: 6.7% | Hands: 2159]
BTN ($19.28) [VPIP: 22.5% | PFR: 18.2% | AGG: 37.4% | 3-Bet: 8.5% | Hands: 6673]
SB ($23.52) [VPIP: 26.1% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 31.3% | 3-Bet: 8.2% | Hands: 1107]
HERO ($10)
HJ ($10.85)

Dealt to Hero: J

HJ Raises To $0.30, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, HERO Raises To $1.20, HJ Raises To $3.03, HERO Calls $1.83

Hero SPR on Flop: [1.14 effective]
Flop ($6.11): 4

HERO Bets $6.97 (allin)

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12-12-2018 , 03:48 AM

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

JJ is prob a fold pre oop at these stakes vs a 30bb 4b
alternative is to ship, don't like calling too much

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12-12-2018 , 03:55 AM

YouBetIcall

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,052

why would you donk shove flop?

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12-12-2018 , 04:13 AM

Malunor

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 97

I think pre can be a fold against the big 4B. Ap, x/shove flop, let him stab with Ak instead of getting only called by better.

I know you said your site is tough and that you need to play on it but you really need to table select, you’re juste losing money because even though you may have some edge over some bad regs, it won’t be enough to beat the micro’s rake.

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12-12-2018 , 08:46 AM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malunor

I can’t table select unfortunately. There’s usually only 4-8 tables going at 10NL and they all have the same people (some bots imo).

I shoved flop because I think AK calls but maybe that’s wrong.

I’ve been playing a bit on Ignition zoom tables and been doing well there so I might ditch WPN for a bit.

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12-12-2018 , 08:47 AM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouBetIcall

why would you donk shove flop?

I didn’t want to give AK a free card and felt like AK is pot committed now with an SPR of 1. Thoughts?

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12-12-2018 , 08:58 AM

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

I like the shove

Preflop, not so much. My preflop advice is based on **** players on Ignition. Whether it's correct to flat here or 3b/f here is another story

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I’ve been playing a bit on Ignition zoom tables and been doing well there so I might ditch WPN for a bit.

Who said to move there months ago?

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12-12-2018 , 10:07 AM

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Lol when they use this size PF. I would just fold pre to the 4b most of the time, shove some of the time.

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12-12-2018 , 10:22 AM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

I like the shove

Preflop, not so much. My preflop advice is based on **** players on Ignition. Whether it's correct to flat here or 3b/f here is another story

Who said to move there months ago?

What can I say..I'm a slow learner

Yeah I need to start gathering data on population tendencies. Maybe just flat here PF although it is only 5 handed so that makes me lean towards a 3bet.

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12-12-2018 , 10:30 AM

#10

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

3b is fine but when he 4b to that sizing you can just gii or fold a lot oop
anything above 1/4 of the eff stacks is a big 4b
you can call more liberally ip
22bb would've been a standard 4b for him

Last edited by ionutd; 12-12-2018 at 10:38 AM.

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12-12-2018 , 10:34 AM

#11

Rikk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 2,140

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

What can I say..I'm a slow learner

Yeah I need to start gathering data on population tendencies. Maybe just flat here PF although it is only 5 handed so that makes me lean towards a 3bet.

I think 3b/f is preferable to flatting the 2b. Folding to the 4b is more of an exploit, I think.

Something I've noticed, but have no evidence to back up at all, is that 4betting a BB 3b seems more weighted to value than other positions.

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12-12-2018 , 11:11 AM

#12

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

The inherant nature of a BB 3b is insanely narrow since the price to flat PF in the BB is better than any other position. 4bs are going to be even narrower.

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12-12-2018 , 12:26 PM

#13

bfskinner

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 78

QQ+ never folds. Are you hoping to get AK

to fold? Otherwise you are value betting against TT (assuming he 4 bets TT and blowing off your equity against AKo.

What was your thought process for shoving?

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12-12-2018 , 02:00 PM

#14

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfskinner

QQ+ never folds. Are you hoping to get AK

to fold? Otherwise you are value betting against TT (assuming he 4 bets TT and blowing off your equity against AKo.

What was your thought process for shoving?

I'm trying to get AK to make a mistake and call. there is close to zero fold equity in SPR pots of 1

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12-12-2018 , 02:17 PM

#15

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

If they fold AK not in spades, who made the mistake though?

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12-12-2018 , 04:55 PM

#16

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

If they fold AK not in spades, who made the mistake though?

if he folds i made a mistake, but if he calls he made a mistake.

It's probably not quite this black and white though since hands like A5s (which hates life) and some hand Axs hands will be in his range.

Of course he snapped with KK. Should of folded preflop!

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12-12-2018 , 07:24 PM

#17

YouBetIcall

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,052

he is going to bet Ax anyway so you don't lose any value if you check, AK most people don't 4bet in this positions, so let's give him just few combos, and AK only has 6 outs vs your hand....

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12-12-2018 , 07:44 PM

#18

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouBetIcall

he is going to bet Ax anyway so you don't lose any value if you check, AK most people don't 4bet in this positions, so let's give him just few combos, and AK only has 6 outs vs your hand....

i dont think most players cbet on this board with Ax. I think their line of thinking is I went for a little 4bet bluff and it didnt work. now I check back because i dont want to punt a stack. Punting a stack with no equity is a lot harder mentally then doing a 30BB preflop bluff.

you could be right though, im not sure tbh.

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12-12-2018 , 07:53 PM

#19

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

don't think you'l see ppl 4b AK here too much
mby suited

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12-12-2018 , 08:09 PM

#20

K40cheddar

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,736

Its bad. Either shove over or fold pre.

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12-12-2018 , 09:09 PM

#21

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

I don't think pre is that bad, but you only want to flat something like QQ, JJ and AKs (anything worse should fold to the 4-bet). I'm not sure why you're jamming flop.

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12-12-2018 , 09:28 PM

#22

sinnaJ

old hand

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,458

pre this is like among the worst hands for calling a 4b! either shove or fold
nothing better is ever gonna fold post flop and Ak and the likes will only continue if they have you beat

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12-14-2018 , 06:45 AM

#23

Rapidesh123

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8,676

Fold pre, you know you're supposed to flat a lot pre vs tough players, right? Vs fish you should just 3bet to get value vs bad calls pre, vs nits you have more reasons to call pre than vs tough opponents since even though they are worse, you just can't make money vs a very tight RFI OOP (less than just flatting).

I understand the donk jam, don't hate it, but you shouldn't do it vs decent players.

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