Good 3barrel UTG vs SB? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Good 3barrel UTG vs SB?

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02-22-2018 , 02:52 PM

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Would like to get some feedback.

I treat the mindonk like I would a check, maybe the donk shifts his range more to showdownvalue hands, but without more info on villian I still want to cbet my GS and 2 overs.

I think betting the turn is good since I get get some folds from 9x worse pairs and maybe even Jx and I also can often get draws like 87, QT etc to fold

On the river I thought I can get any remaining pairs and even some Ax in his range to fold and Its quite hard for villian to have a flush here. His range seems really capped here....

Thanks in advance for any feedback

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37931660

BTN: $63.19 (252.8 bb)
SB: $34.17 (136.7 bb)
BB: $29.39 (117.6 bb)
Hero (UTG): $52.91 (211.6 bb)
MP: $60.51 (242 bb)
CO: $24.84 (99.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q

Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, SB calls $0.65, BB folds

Flop: ($1.75) J

(2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, SB calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.75) A

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4

River: ($12.75) 5

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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02-22-2018 , 03:03 PM

ChipsNcrisps

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4,946

At the end of the day, we are bluffing a fish and fish dont like to fold. Hard to evaluate the actual ev of the play since we have no clue if he folds Jx. Your line makes sense and I do think this line shows a profit.

BTW, thinking he folds Ax otr is not true. When you bet river you are targeting Jx and thats it.

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02-22-2018 , 03:11 PM

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

How do you know we are facing a fish? I had like 10 hands on him and he has a full stack. Yeah he flatted in the SB which is not typical for a reg, but I think thats less telling when we open UTG then in LP.

Thanks for the feedback!

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02-22-2018 , 03:16 PM

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

I do think a thinking player may fold some Ax when he thinks about how many valuecombos we have and given how the population likely underbluffs in this spot our perceived range should be very strong.
But obviously im not to thrilled to fold out TP at the micros and are targeting mostly Jx. But because villian was unknown to me, I did not completely rule him folding Ax out. I myself would fold Ax here

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02-22-2018 , 04:23 PM

Purple Hat

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 138

I think the min donk bet is what makes villain likely to be a fish.

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02-22-2018 , 04:34 PM

ChipsNcrisps

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4,946

flop min donk ofc

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02-22-2018 , 04:58 PM

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Right.... Im feeling foolish for forgetting about that ^^

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02-23-2018 , 05:34 AM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,103

dont bluff fish, shut down if he calls turn anyway

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02-23-2018 , 06:09 AM

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brokenstars

dont bluff fish, shut down if he calls turn anyway

I always felt that blanket statement like "never bluff fish" to be incorrect. There are certainly good spots to blufff fish. Their ranges are more capped and weak than those of other players. While they can call with a bunch of garbage, they will also have a bunch of garbage that they can fold. Bluffing and valuebetting arent exclusive when dealing with wide ranges. I also think that fish get more risk-averse on later streets where bets get bigger. Maybe youre right and this is not a good spot to bluff, but I think this "don't bluff fish" statement is not a generalisation we can correctly make

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02-23-2018 , 06:32 AM

#10

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Art

''Never'' is a strong word...

Surely u can and u should be bluffing at some freq of a time but in this exact hand, I'd shut it down after the turn call...

and overall, ur bluffing frequency should be muuuuuuuch lower vs fishes vs other REGs

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02-23-2018 , 07:02 AM

#11

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

Flop and turn I play the same but river is a give up, fish has way too much Jx, turn we are targeting 2x and 9x stuff and we have great equity vs his range. a good reminder that we need to vbet Ax hard and KJ probably as well

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02-23-2018 , 07:50 AM

#12

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Ok thanks guys for your feedback

What about an overbet on the river? Surely this will make villian fold Ax and Jx when the flush comes in

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02-23-2018 , 07:52 AM

#13

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

I'd do this with a hand like 87 where I just blast off and overbet shove otr. It's actually the only hand id bluff (3 streets) in this spot, regardless of the player, but, not all the time.

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02-23-2018 , 07:57 AM

#14

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

I'd do this with a hand like 87 where I just blast off and overbet shove otr. It's actually the only hand id bluff (3 streets) in this spot, regardless of the player, but, not all the time.

Thanks for the reply, why exactly 87s?

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02-23-2018 , 08:16 AM

#15

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

No prob. 87 doesn't block the nut OESD or any of the other Jx type hands (QJ/KJ/JT) that you try to get to fold otr, + no SDV.

Just saw the spade hit the river. I'd probably elect to have it most of the time since V didnt go anywhere ott to such a large bet.

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02-23-2018 , 08:20 AM

#16

StackedYouSon

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 741

Honestly I'm just checking and giving up on the turn. Usually in spots like this I find villain's to be particularly sticky. Also, I don't think the ace on the turn is a great card for our range. Villain could be floating the flop with a lot of stuff like A2, A9, JT-AJ and we only have a gutterball. I'd like to check behind and try to get some equity on the river. Might bet if checked to.

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02-23-2018 , 08:26 AM

#17

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

Yeah that makes a lot of sense thank you!

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02-23-2018 , 08:27 PM

#18

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,103

Andy, let me clarify.

The flop and turn are OK, though keep in mind by raising flop you are saying to yourself, "I am raising here because I think raising is more profitable than calling" which may not be the case.

Turn bluff is also ok, since a lot of fish are always "scared" of the A. However, on the river you should check because you still have showdown value vs hands like t8 qt and also because once fish call turn they don't fold rivers too much if they have any pair, especially if there were any draws (like fd/sd, etc.)

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02-24-2018 , 04:44 AM

#19

JamesBJames

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,791

It seems like it's one of the better combos in our range to bluff with (effectively no showdown value, blocks some amount of villain's calling range), but I don't think we care about having a bluffing range OTR against a fish. If villain hadn't mindonked flop I think I'd be on board with your line.

Maybe we should bluff large some non-zero amount of the time against a fish, but it just seems so much easier to value bet lighter instead.

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02-24-2018 , 05:19 AM

#20

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Thanks guys, I'll keep the spew down against fish. Although Im not totally convinced that overbetting here is a bad line against fish. I guess I'll experiment with it and see how it goes

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02-24-2018 , 10:10 AM

#21

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Prefer to flat the min donk here. We get odds to continue and we will have approximately the same fold equity on later streets for less money.

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