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Old 07-12-2018, 10:06 PM   #1
kolob32
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Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)
CO ($1.72)
BTN ($1.53)
SB ($5.67)
HERO ($24.08)
UTG ($6.65)
HJ ($2.97)

Dealt to Hero J T

UTG Raises To $0.14 (Rem. Stack: 6.51), HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, HERO Calls $0.09 (Rem. Stack: 23.94)

Flop ($0.30) Q 2 K
HERO Checks, UTG Bets $0.19 (Rem. Stack: 6.32), HERO Calls $0.19 (Rem. Stack: 23.75)

Turn ($0.68) Q 2 K T
HERO Checks, UTG Bets $0.51 (Rem. Stack: 5.81), HERO Calls $0.51 (Rem. Stack: 23.24)

River ($1.70) Q 2 K T 7
HERO Checks, UTG Bets $1.6 (Rem. Stack: 4.21), HERO Folds

I know the call from BB with UTG open is probably loose but I think I got a good price. The problem with this hand is I think I have some SDV after the turn and then the river bricks and I give up to a large bet. I don't know if this is a sound strategy. If it was good enough to call on the turn why not the river?

Can you guys tell me if my thought process is flawed? AP would you have done anything different. Thinking about it now, maybe should have raised flop with OESD as a semibluff?
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:36 PM   #2
Mohsen
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

Nothing out of normal here.
Show down value is a hand that if it goes to showdown, it has a chance to win
I would go ahead and say your hand has less than 5% chance of winning...
So you don't have SDV,and it's a fold...
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:45 AM   #3
Alci
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

CC in these spots will bleed money imo. Defending JTs against UTG open is especially bad if the only way to win the pot is by making your hand. Try this do a DB search and find your WR after CC 3 streets. That's all you need to know.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:56 AM   #4
simplelessons
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

x/r flop or fold pre imo
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:08 AM   #5
Rikk
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

I don't like any option OTF. Folding too weak, flatting seems to bleed money, I don't like our equity when called enough for a raise. Of all the options I think I prefer a flat OTF because people at these stakes tend to cbet too much and one-and-done.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:16 AM   #6
simplelessons
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

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Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
I don't like any option OTF. Folding too weak, flatting seems to bleed money, I don't like our equity when called enough for a raise. Of all the options I think I prefer a flat OTF because people at these stakes tend to cbet too much and one-and-done.
The bold part is a data point which favors raising over flatting. V's whole cbetting range has a lot of equity vs our J high so getting folds is nice. We also have a hand that is easy to fold vs a 3bet and can take a free card on the turn when we need to. By x/r we increase the likeliness that we get to see the river IP and we get to set the price for it.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #7
Rikk
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

Good points but we also have to put more money in the pot to x/r. I also don't think any part of my range (not necessarily OP's) wants to raise this flop for value, and the board favours an UTG range. Maybe that doesn't matter too much though.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:44 AM   #8
simplelessons
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

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Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
Good points but we also have to put more money in the pot to x/r. I also don't think any part of my range (not necessarily OP's) wants to raise this flop for value, and the board favours an UTG range. Maybe that doesn't matter too much though.
Going to want to raise with KQ and 22(if we have it). If we x/r flop to .55 or .60 we can check back turn when V checks and we just saw the river for less than what we pay by x/c & x/c. This is one of our lowest equity draws so it makes a ton of sense as an x/r if we are using a polarized strategy.

We should have at least 3 combos of KQ, so I would use the 3 non-heart combos of JTs and 4 combos of T9s - possibly flatting Th9h against nittier opponents.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:08 PM   #9
dynamite2006
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

I think the hand makes sense going in both lines at some frequency. We will have some value (9 combos of KQ and 3 of 22) and so we should be raising some semibliffs as well and this is a good candidate. I think being out of position I lean towards raising as we will struggle calling another bet on brick turns.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:18 PM   #10
smiffi
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

I think flatting F and T is correct.
R should probably be a x/r instead of a x/c or x/f.
It's the weakest hand in your entire river range (I suppose), you have a J blocker to straights and a T blocker to the set and at some point (either T or R) you will have to x/r AJ and J9 for value.

JT seems like a wasted fold to me.
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:05 PM   #11
yasuo
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

JTs is not call pre????????
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:58 PM   #12
.isolated
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Exclamation Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuo View Post
JTs is not call pre????????
Nope. Everyone overvalues it.

Quote:
we can check back turn when V checks and we just saw the river for less than what we pay by x/c & x/c. This is one of our lowest equity draws so it makes a ton of sense as an x/r if we are using a polarized strategy.
Simultaneously IP and OOP
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:04 PM   #13
simplelessons
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated View Post

Simultaneously IP and OOP
Yeah...what I meant was we can check and V will check back often.

Edit: on second thought we would want to barrel most turns with this hand and give up with 9T unimproved.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:48 PM   #14
mrno1324
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

Fold or raise pre.
Flop could go either way, JTss better raise.
Turn easy xf imo, the ten sh**s all over the value of your straight when you make it and on top of that it's a lot worse when you make it on a heart.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:44 PM   #15
Renekton
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Re: Folding with SDV after a brick on the river

Call pre is good. 3betting occasionally is fine. Fold only makes sense if average UTG open is really nitty.

Flop can be call or raise, but just remember you shouldn't have a large raising range here. You should also call sometimes with KQ,22 because he has range advantage.

I think turn is close. His range improved and your SDV against is weak. You don't block much value like QJs does.

Good enough to call on turn therefore good enough to call river is not a good strategy. You made a good river fold.
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