Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff

07-15-2019 , 10:08 PM
In honor of the great Pluribus - i have vowed to start donk leading more

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BTN ($11.41) [VPIP: 40.4% | PFR: 31.5% | AGG: 39.5% | 3-Bet: 8.3% | Hands: 91]
SB ($10.00) [VPIP: 23.5% | PFR: 17.4% | AGG: 32.7% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 2774]
BB ($13.92) [VPIP: 42.5% | PFR: 37.9% | AGG: 24.2% | 3-Bet: 10.8% | Hands: 100]
HERO ($36.00) [VPIP: 26.4% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 33% | 3-Bet: 10.8% | Hands: 89571]

Dealt to Hero: J K

HERO Raises To $0.30, BTN Raises To $1.05, SB Folds, BB Folds, HERO Calls $0.75

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.6 effective]
Flop ($2.25): 9 8 8
HERO Bets $1.40 (Rem. Stack: 33.55), BTN Calls $1.40 (Rem. Stack: 8.96)

Turn ($5.05): 9 8 8 7
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $2.30 (Rem. Stack: 6.66), HERO Raises To $33.55 (allin)
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 10:20 PM
no
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 10:26 PM
Villain has to fold 54% to auto profit from this play. he is aggro postflop and he 3b pre so he has more Ax in his range. Which also means As, seems spewy tbh

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 10:27 PM
whatchya doin?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegibson
Villain has to fold 54% to auto profit from this play. he is aggro postflop and he 3b pre so he has more Ax in his range. Which also means As, seems spewy tbh

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
You realize we can't have just the A in our hand right?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
no
You realize OOP should be donking this board texture at a very high frequency?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 10:57 PM
I doubt the solver would donk at a high frequency
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-15-2019 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuo
I doubt the solver would donk at a high frequency
Depends on the ranges you give CO and BTN.

But most reasonable ranges will have CO at least 50/50 equity wise on this board.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
Depends on the ranges you give CO and BTN.



But most reasonable ranges will have CO at least 50/50 equity wise on this board.
even if you give CO 50% equity on this board, it still shouldn't start donking because BTN still has all those overpairs etc while CO's range is more "bluffcatcher heavy". As you probably already know, equity =/= ev.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuo
even if you give CO 50% equity on this board, it still shouldn't start donking because BTN still has all those overpairs etc while CO's range is more "bluffcatcher heavy". As you probably already know, equity =/= ev.
Do you realize how much 50% equity is in a 3bet pot OOP? If we had 55% equity - we would be donking range here.

I would donk lead because it is higher EV for a lot of our holdings. Also we have more flush draws than our opponent. So the FD board is better for us.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
Do you realize how much 50% equity is in a 3bet pot OOP? If we had 55% equity - we would be donking range here.



I would donk lead because it is higher EV for a lot of our holdings. Also we have more flush draws than our opponent. So the FD board is better for us.
is this just some theorycrafting or actual solver output?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuo
is this just some theorycrafting or actual solver output?
In game it was just hand reading.

I know flush draw boards are better for the 3bet caller - advantage CO
I know we have way more 8x than our opponent - advantage CO
I know we have more 99 than our opponent - advantage CO

The turn is one of the best cards in the deck for us. JTs gets there and FD's
are completed. Also 65s/77 get there

I did run it through a solver - and I should use 1/3 sizing for my donk leads. I ended up going way too big here. Also it thinks I should lead turn here instead of XR.

Although exploitatively this line might be better im not sure.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
In game it was just hand reading.

I know flush draw boards are better for the 3bet caller - advantage CO
I know we have way more 8x than our opponent - advantage CO
I know we have more 99 than our opponent - advantage CO

The turn is one of the best cards in the deck for us. JTs gets there and FD's
are completed. Also 65s/77 get there

I did run it through a solver - and I should use 1/3 sizing for my donk leads. I ended up going way too big here. Also it thinks I should lead turn here instead of XR.

Although exploitatively this line might be better im not sure.
how often does the solver suggest donking flop?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuo
how often does the solver suggest donking flop?
Around 50/50 at 1/3 sizing.

if this board was TsTc9s instead of 9s8c8s it would be a range donk bet.

Results

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BTN ($11.41) [VPIP: 40.6% | PFR: 31.3% | AGG: 34.9% | 3-Bet: 7.9% | Hands: 98]
SB ($10.00) [VPIP: 23.5% | PFR: 17.5% | AGG: 32.7% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 2779]
BB ($13.92) [VPIP: 43.3% | PFR: 38.9% | AGG: 24.2% | 3-Bet: 13.2% | Hands: 103]
HERO ($36.00) [VPIP: 26.4% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 33% | 3-Bet: 10.8% | Hands: 89578]

Dealt to Hero: J K

HERO Raises To $0.30, BTN Raises To $1.05, SB Folds, BB Folds, HERO Calls $0.75

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.6 effective]
Flop ($2.25): 9 8 8
HERO Bets $1.40 (Rem. Stack: 33.55), BTN Calls $1.40 (Rem. Stack: 8.96)

Turn ($5.05): 9 8 8 7
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $2.30 (Rem. Stack: 6.66), HERO Raises To $33.55 (allin)

Spoiler:

BTN Folds
HERO wins: $9.17
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
You realize OOP should be donking this board texture at a very high frequency?
No because it shouldn't. What kind of crazy ranges did you give them?

As for the turn, it's the same timeless advice : put money in with good hands, have a spade at least..
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
I know flush draw boards are better for the 3bet caller - advantage CO
I know we have way more 8x than our opponent - advantage CO
I know we have more 99 than our opponent - advantage CO
True, but if you actually had one of those hands and expected villain to range bet at a high frequency, would you make more money via donking or actually letting them range bet and then calling (to let them keep bluffing) or x/r'ing?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldzMine
True, but if you actually had one of those hands and expected villain to range bet at a high frequency, would you make more money via donking or actually letting them range bet and then calling (to let them keep bluffing) or x/r'ing?
I don't expect Villain to range bet at a high frequency here. He shouldn't be.

Edit. Range bets are not at any frequency but 100% frequency. But no I don't expect him to bet often on this flop.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
No because it shouldn't. What kind of crazy ranges did you give them?

As for the turn, it's the same timeless advice : put money in with good hands, have a spade at least..
I used very reasonable ranges



I think I got these from BrokenStars in another thread if I remember correctly.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
You realize we can't have just the AFlexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff: in our hand right?
I wasnt talking about our hand, if villain has more Ax in his range, inherently he will also have more ace of spades then us

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegibson
I wasnt talking about our hand, if villain has more Ax in his range, inherently he will also have more ace of spades then us

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
AX hands are dead in the water against my shoving range though.

If I have a flush they have 7 outs.
If I have a boat they are drawing dead
If I have a straight they have 9 outs
If I have trips they have 8-9 outs depending on my kicker.


Also I don't think AX hands should even be betting OTT very often - you don't want to bluff your best Ace highs.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
I used very reasonable ranges



I think I got these from BrokenStars in another thread if I remember correctly.
i see one pic only
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-16-2019 , 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
AFlexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff:X hands are dead in the water against my shoving range though.



If I have a flush they have 7 outs.

If I have a boat they are drawing dead

If I have a straight they have 9 outs

If I have trips they have 8-9 outs depending on my kicker.





Also I don't think AFlexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff:X hands should even be betting OTT very often - you don't want to bluff your best Ace highs.
Obviously not of you have KJcc in your shoving range lol Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff
I see your reasoning, but against this guy..I think its dicey..I'd be careful with lines like this

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-18-2019 , 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
T
Why do you flat hands like 98s-65s, A5s OOP vs a 3b? Pokersnowie never calls those hands. What resource do you use to design your 3b defend range?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-18-2019 , 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
No because it shouldn't. What kind of crazy ranges did you give them?
How do you range people preflop? What resources do you use?
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote
07-18-2019 , 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renekton
Why do you flat hands like 98s-65s, A5s OOP vs a 3b? Pokersnowie never calls those hands. What resource do you use to design your 3b defend range?
Snowie isn't accurate. Monker ranges are the most accurate.
Flexin on my Exes? 3bet pot Donk Lead - Turn XR Bluff Quote

      
m