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Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r

08-21-2019 , 03:37 AM
Played this hand some time ago on partypoker NL10

~130 BB effective

Someone I have tagged as a weaker reg opens from HJ for 2.5BB
Hero is in BB with A3 and calls

Flop (~5.2BB)
T63

Flop hits me pretty well and I'm looking to x/r aggressively here with a variety of holdings, even playing a bit exploitative expecting villain to overfold. With this exact combo I think playing a mixed strategy is best?

Hero checks
Villain bets 4BB
Hero raises to 18BB
Villain calls

At this point I think villains range is fairly strong, like I said my read is that he will overfold the flop after cbetting too wide

Turn (~41BB)
T63K

Propably the worst turn in the deck? I havent analyzed this hand yet but I believe I'm meant to be checking here almost all of my range?

Hero checks
Villain bets 22BB
Hero?

Not sure what to do here with my range but with this exact holding propably call? Can still hit trips or 2p and call down. Is this a shove/fold spot?

Hero calls.

River(~85BB)
T63KQ

Dont think the river changes much. If anything some of villains bluffs improved. I'm almost never good here on the river and if I am villain should bluff me off, but he might check behind (weaker player etc.)

Hero check
Villain checks

Last edited by 2019fish2019; 08-21-2019 at 03:50 AM.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-21-2019 , 04:12 AM
On the flop I would x/c because we have a good hand but we are OOP. If you raise what will happen if the turn is not something that helps like this King? This way we could control the pot a little bit and we would have space to call on the turn.
But this way you played this hand I would x/f on the turn.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-21-2019 , 05:17 AM
you're certainly not supposed to be checking range on turn, Kx and better still want to bet
you can bet open enders and combo draws
in my understanding, the 3x fds are fine to barrel turn because of the lower sdv and set blocker
ap I'd ship turn because ip has all the incentive in the world to bet too much
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-21-2019 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionutd
you're certainly not supposed to be checking range on turn, Kx and better still want to bet
you can bet open enders and combo draws
in my understanding, the 3x fds are fine to barrel turn because of the lower sdv and set blocker
ap I'd ship turn because ip has all the incentive in the world to bet too much
Hmm yeah I suppose I have some Kx of spades and Kc hands that I get to the turn with. I still think checking with some value makes sense coz a lot of my bluffs just want to give up on the turn
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-21-2019 , 10:37 AM
Bet the turn. Why do you think K hits his range? The only hand that improves is KT and some random overs that he calls flop with which i doubt (you even mention he overfolds)

What if villian has AT/QT/JJ/QQ - you put him in a very tough spot with a turn bet. Jamming river regardless of the card for 130 BB.

For 100 BB i prefer to just flat the flop and mb mix the turn with c/k again and check/raise
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-21-2019 , 02:54 PM
I'm looking forward to see the result!
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-22-2019 , 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hZJTs6
I'm looking forward to see the result!
V checks behind with AT and scoops the pot
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 04:43 PM
The King does not hit our range. That means it improves Villains range. That means we have to do some checking. I do believe that Combo can be a bet but that really depends how you construct your flop x/r range. If you x/r too many draws and double too often on a brick you will be overbluffing that turn.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuko
The King does not hit our range. That means it improves Villains range. That means we have to do some checking. I do believe that Combo can be a bet but that really depends how you construct your flop x/r range. If you x/r too many draws and double too often on a brick you will be overbluffing that turn.
Having the pair here is exactly the reason why I checked on the turn, I'd rather fire 3 with a hand like 45, 98, 97, 78, QJ (although in this case i'd prolly check river). Theres just so many bluffs I could have here.

I already simmed the hand and I'm not supposed to x/r much on the flop vs his size. A3cc was low frequency and turn was checked but I dont remember what was the line vs a bet
edit: I must remember something wrong, defo raising quite a bit on the flop. About a 33 raise/66 call split with this hand and 33 bet/66 check on the turn, jamming vs a bet. Interesting if villain bets a bit more on the turn we are shoving or folding.

Last edited by 2019fish2019; 08-23-2019 at 05:01 PM.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuko
The King does not hit our range. That means it improves Villains range. That means we have to do some checking. I do believe that Combo can be a bet but that really depends how you construct your flop x/r range. If you x/r too many draws and double too often on a brick you will be overbluffing that turn.
Just because the king doesn’t hit our range doesn’t necessarily mean it hits villains. Like stated earlier, the only hands that the king helps is KT and KK.

I like the flop xr with this combo and would follow up big OTT.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG
Just because the king doesn’t hit our range doesn’t necessarily mean it hits villains. Like stated earlier, the only hands that the king helps is KT and KK.

I like the flop xr with this combo and would follow up big OTT.
that is not exactly true… Villain has AT. Villain is playing against a range of Sets and draws. Do you think Villain wants to see a King or a club / card that complete straights ?

Once Villain gets x/r on the flop he is basically bluff catching. he does not need to improve his absolute hand strength.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuko
that is not exactly true… Villain has AT. Villain is playing against a range of Sets and draws. Do you think Villain wants to see a King or a club / card that complete straights ?

Once Villain gets x/r on the flop he is basically bluff catching. he does not need to improve his absolute hand strength.
I get that from villains perception, but this has to be one of our highest equity draws. Pair that with the fact that we are betting on a turn that presumably improves villains range more than ours should make our barrel appear stronger, no?
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 05:50 PM
Plus once we check turn we cap our range to primarily draws.
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote
08-23-2019 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG
Pair that with the fact that we are betting on a turn that presumably improves villains range more than ours should make our barrel appear stronger, no?
lol sorry. but that is backward logic. Villain calls the flop x/r because he knows we have way more "bluff" (draw) combos than sets or 2 pair. On the Turn villain will most likely continue with all hands that beat our bluffs. Since pretty much none of our flop bluff combos improve on that king he will continue a lot on that turn. It is a good card for his range, that means he will continue a lot and not that he starts to fold just because we bet.

Quote:
Plus once we check turn we cap our range to primarily draws.
not sure why you would say that. like i said before. we have to check a lot on that turn. personally i do check a lot of "value" combos too because Villains reopen on that turn quite a bit. I am not really surprised to see Villain reopening with AT. I assume you dont use solvers?
Facing a tough turn card after flop x/r Quote

      
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